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Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

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Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s fascinating. Can you share some more information about this process, where filming happens before the script is done? It seems to be that there might be a parallel with software dev practices, ie waterfall model (write script, shoot script, edit film) and a more lean/agile model (writing, shooting and editing in whatever order it takes to build up the film)

Message #3 in this email thread: https://www.fwdeveryone.com/t/8SE7gM0xRkGI2taSIFBJhw/rensa-g...

> Black Widow was fully created with motion capture ("pre-visualization") before a script was even written.

That sounds very unlikely and I'd need a better citation. And pre-visualization doesn't really mean what they seem to be using it to mean here.

Edit: It seems like this is you trying to promote your Hollywood startup, rather than an accurate assessment of how things are currently done in Hollywood.

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#62
post #52

The overseas market, specifically China, probably plays a much bigger role in self-censoring cinema than most people are comfortable admitting. Nobody wants good cinema, movies that dig into and challenge the human condition. They want money. In the last 20-30 years, we have seen the strip-mall-ization of the movie theater. Every city has at least one, they all look the same, and drop in at any time and you'll see th…

I don’t know if hollywood has ever been anything else. I watched a documentary recently on the action movies of the 80s and 90s [1]. The part that was eye opening was the interview of Mario Kassar, who produced some of my favorite movies as a teenager in the 90s: Rambo, Total Recall, T2, Basic Instinct, etc. He talks about what he puts in his films literally like a farmer talks about grain for his pigs. It has always…

This is the best rebuttal to my thesis. Thanks.

There is a tension between art and commercial art. Beethoven should have never written that battle symphony.

When done well, I think you can get both. Start with the story and then weave in the commercial aspects. Or start with the story and only choose to finance movies that have both art and commercial value. What you can't do is start with the commercial side and then try to hammer in a good story. There have been a few masters that managed to pull that off, but it's rare. Add in committee-management instead of having an artist's eye and it becomes total crap.

It's in nobody's interest to only have arthouse flicks that nobody watches. Happily it's not an either-or decision. Good drama will draw in the commercial part than can then be exploited. Everybody's happy. What I'm seeing now is that majority of films start with a locked-in fanbase and then try to do their best at creating an n+1 episode. That's how they're getting around the quality problem: they make it moot. They know the locked-in fanbase is coming no matter what they produce, and if it's a real stinker? Well hell, all of the press and arguing about how bad it is will just drive up interest for n+2. Not only is that not trying to mix a good story in with a commercial line, that's putting the story quality pretty far down the list. It's noticeable.

ADD: I'd say that in the heyday of arthouse flicks, say 65-80, you had the peak of movies that covered both bases well. Nobody's doing another Midnight Cowboy.

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#63

This article is just a bunch of anecdata. Has the proportion of theatrical releases containing sex scenes indeed declined in recent years? What about streaming releases? Neither of these questions is quantitatively answered. The “evidence” that sex scenes have become taboo because they embody the “male gaze” and are therefore problematic comes from some un-cited hypothetical tweet. Assuming this tweet is even real, i…

I read the article and didn't have your reaction! Or, I long since, for years, often had your reaction and finally for nearly all media gave up!

Soooo, instead of your reaction I just backed off and decided to regard any and all statements in such media content as, call it, "conjectures that some people want to pass out guessing that maybe some other people will agree".

That is, we get a lot of conjectures! I can like getting some of the conjectures since commonly they are not ones I would think of -- so, maybe there is some value there, e.g., not that the conjectures make any real sense but, say, just that they are maybe (another conjecture!) that some people would entertain in which case we might get some insight into some people! See, if strain enough, bend over backwards and twist self out of shape, discard nearly all sense of rationalism and critical thinking, can find a glimmer of value!!

Then the article mentioned Anya Taylor-Joy: Never heard of her, so did a fast Google search and got caught up. Yup, of the several pictures of her one of them to my eyes did have "almost-alien beauty"; that picture, if only from some lighting, seemed to have the part of her nose between her eyes unusually wide.

Besides, have to give a little value for the rough, guesstimate conjecture:

"(Congrats: You're caught up on the last 30 years or so of the theatrical exhibition business.)"

Maybe some such thing is true, maybe!

Net: It's easy to read such media criticism -- just set aside all rationality directly on the content and look, instead, at the content as maybe some insight into what some people might believe! That is, we should have some good insight into what nonsense some people might believe, that is, we might be learning about the people, not the nonsense! It's not difficult; you can do it, too!

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#64
I'll give the dissenting opinion: not every story needs to be a love story, unless the movie is about sex it shouldn't have a sex scene. It was infuriating how "love story" and "sex scene" were mandatory tick boxes on every single movie in the 80s and 90s, regardless of if the plot called for it or not.

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#65
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Message #3 in this email thread: https://www.fwdeveryone.com/t/8SE7gM0xRkGI2taSIFBJhw/rensa-g...

So your reference is something else you wrote? I'd love to see some other references if have any. It's a bold claim (from the linked article) to say that: > Black Widow was fully created with motion capture ("pre-visualization") before a script was even written

> So your reference is something else you wrote?

I didn't write it, that's my co-founder.

And plus there is a full article about it here if you just Google it: https://www.insider.com/marvel-plans-movies-action-scenes-ye...

"While previs used to be used for just one or two tricky action scenes, Marvel has embraced the approach of visualizing entire movies, including quieter beats and dialogue scenes."

"The first visualizations of a Marvel film will often begin before the script's fully finished."

"Occasionally, rough previs might be underway even before the cinematographer or director has signed on to the project, a practice that can be controversial in Hollywood. Director Lucrecia Martel said she turned down the offer to direct the upcoming "Black Widow" movie after Marvel told her not to worry about the action sequences."

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#66
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Message #3 in this email thread: https://www.fwdeveryone.com/t/8SE7gM0xRkGI2taSIFBJhw/rensa-g...

So your reference is something else you wrote? I'd love to see some other references if have any. It's a bold claim (from the linked article) to say that: > Black Widow was fully created with motion capture ("pre-visualization") before a script was even written

[deleted]

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get that idea? The proportion of films rated R and also PG-13 has been steady over the past 15 years. The proportion of films rated PG has increased, but at the expense of G. https://m.the-numbers.com/market/mpaa-ratings

Those ratings are weird - but the Chinese basically hacking the US cultural export thing is a big influence. Many movies have subtle elements that are present for the purposes of sucking up to the PRC.

That’s definitely true - and many of the elements are not even subtle at all. But I don’t think that explains the sex scenes, as those could be easily cut for Chinese releases.

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#68

I was watching The Beastmaster on Prime and commented this to my girlfriend as we watched it. It’s a great movie from the 80s that of course has some sex and nudity. Hollywood is completely terrified of sex and nudity now. It alters people’s brains in ways we don’t understand I think. We still hold what we see on the silver screen as a cultural reference point. There’s nothing dirty or wrong about the human body or s…

Fortunately we still have lots of violence, death, and torture. Because those are totally ok and normal things to be thinking about. Ug! Sex and love. that stuff is just too dangerous to let into the public imagination.

[deleted]

Re: Where Have All the Sex Scenes Gone?

#70
post #20

There's actually one really interesting point in here: Zoomers are incredibly "puritanical" and anti-sex. It seems extremely weird that one of the most liberal generations ever is so sex negative.

> There's actually one really interesting point in here: Zoomers are incredibly "puritanical" and anti-sex.

It might depend on the country. I find them way more liberals than my generation. I mean, maybe there is more backroom in nightclub now than 10 years ago (or less?), but i've witnessed more public sex people in 2017-2019 than i ever did before. We might need data on this. Also, i have the impression that my generation restarted the "menage a trois" that i thought disapeared in the late 70s, but that might be because i became close to a LGBTQ+ community in my mid-20s that was way less impressed by sex than i was.

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