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As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

theguardian.com

61–70 of 129 posts

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#61

Facebook is primarily a propaganda organization. It's main objective is to influence, manipulate and subvert the user's judgment and convince them to buy something --- be it physical product or ideology. To further this objective, it has developed an incredibly detailed psychological profile of each individual user using deeply personal info willing surrendered by the user themselves. It's skill at doing this is what…

It's a serious issue and not one that should be taken lightly, but I think it warrants taking a small step back and thinking a bit more about it.

The claim in this comment is that Facebook's business is to sell ads, but facebook users actually the thing being sold, rather than the customers. This has caused Facebook to become evil and do evil things.

However, if you think about it, almost any social "product" follows the same pattern.

Consider Bars and Clubs. On the surface it seems like their only purpose is to sell alcohol to the patrons, and in a way the patrons are just a way to make the club look more popular to attract more alcohol consumers. But most bars don't become propaganda organizations delivering ethanol via an IV drip. Bars want to create a fun environment that is sustainable in the long term, so they avoid strategies that are likely to harm their customers and prevent them from coming back. Some bars are undoubtedly evil, but it's usually pretty obvious and there are regulations to detect and limit misleading or dangerous behavior (spiking drinks, racial discrimination on entry).

For a lot of people, Instagram is more like a Bar than a physical product. It's a place you go to interact with people and have fun or catch up. Facebook wants people to enjoy themselves and keep coming back. Sometimes people have a bad time or are harmed, but it's in Facebook's best interest to understand that and change things to make Instagram safer and more enjoyable, so people will keep coming back and "buying drinks".

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#62
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is an addiction. "Just say no", is wonderful advice but the reality is somewhat more complicated.

It might be easier said than done, but at some point you have to stop indulging your addiction if you want to stop indulging your addiction.

Maybe, but that's now how addictions are generally fixed. Even for simple physical ones, like caffeine, kicking the habit is a complicated process, and is best done with careful preparation and a nuanced understanding of how the addict benefits from the addiction.

That's even more true for more serious addictions. There are always reasons somebody became an addict, and preventing relapse often requires solving those problems first before any real headway is made.

Generally, the "just say no" advice is much more fun to say than it is useful to the addict.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#63

Odd that "Stop using Facebook and products it owns" wasn't listed. While I understand that at this point it will probably take some regulatory action to fully deal with Facebook and its abuses, there's a huge cognitive dissonance among many people when it comes to Facebook. Lots of the people who complain about how evil the company's behavior is use the company's products frequently. Lots of criticism of Facebook is…

If Facebook wasn't behaving anti-competitively by preventing interoperability this might work, but as of right now an individual may not always have a choice in using Facebook. A lot of businesses, social clubs, schools/daycare centers, etc use Facebook as their primary online presence. Your option is to either sign up or not participate.

Swoop (a low-cost airline in Canada) runs their customer support portal through Facebook Messenger, and has a surcharge on their phone support.

You literally have to pay to avoid Facebook with Swoop.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an acceptable view point. However, that doesn't mean FB should not be punished into oblivion. They don't get a free pass just because "someone else would have done it if we didn't" is not an acceptable defense.

I don't disagree. My point is more broadly about the ills of social media, and how it's often framed as a Facebook problem.

Yeah, but what other social media exists beyond Twitter?

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#66

Facebook is primarily a propaganda organization. It's main objective is to influence, manipulate and subvert the user's judgment and convince them to buy something --- be it physical product or ideology. To further this objective, it has developed an incredibly detailed psychological profile of each individual user using deeply personal info willing surrendered by the user themselves. It's skill at doing this is what…

FB is primarily a data collection and behavior directing organization. Surveillance Capitalism is real.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hIXhnWUmMvw

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#67

What can be done to rein in Facebook? Nothing. Either shut it down or live with the impact but the time to 'do something' about Facebook was a long time ago. Before legislators in the US let it become this surveillance behemoth. Before it became a massive ad network. Reining it in also presumes that legislative methods will work. I think it is already clear that they don't. Shut it down.

> Reining it in also presumes that legislative methods will work. I think it is already clear that they don't.

How is it clear? What legislation has been attempted?

The simplest legislation--I could fit it on a page--would be to ban M&A by social media companies over a certain size and force break-ups of past mergers that would have violated that restriction had it been in place since, I don't know, February 4, 2004.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#68
post #12

I worry that simply breaking up FB could make things worse. Today, with a safe monopoly feedung high profit margins they can afford some mitigations (more reviewers, etc) and to "hold back" a bit on some of the worst/unhealthy engagement tricks. Several more equal competitors would feel pressure to outdo each other. Some other fix is needed (probably in addition to breakup).

However, reach on any one platform becomes limited.

Also, it doesn’t seem like their position in the market has really encouraged Facebook to “hold back” on anything. Growth is their only goal.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#69

Simple: Facebook will be stopped when people decide to stop using it or reduce their time on the platform. All the information about their privacy abuses are quite public and people still choose to use the product. I am well aware and I use that information to use it in an informed way (limited usage only on desktop, Firefox container, and more). Yes yes, inside the HN bubble it does seem to be popular. But in the no…

> the information about their privacy abuses are quite public and people still choose to use the product

I don't. I'm still tracked. Also negatively affected by its effects. People are free to smoke cigarettes, but we will pass measures to limit its damage, particularly to innocent bystanders.

Re: As a whistleblower prepares to speak out, what can be done to rein in Facebook?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook’s founder and chief executive, has argued that only companies as large as Facebook have the resources to fight misinformation, election meddling and harmful content. Look, they’re not a propaganda machine! I’m so thankful we have them to “fight” against “misinformation”. I read that and my blood began to boil. Evil is the perfect description of such disgusting, deceitful pandering.

We should stop using the term misinformation and call it untruth. This deobfuscates what’s really happening, which is that: Extreme wealth and power has caused some self-appointed Deciders of Truth to band together and decide that anyone who does not pledge allegiance to anything they decide is true will be cast out of society as much as practically possible. I remember reading Plato’s The Republic when I was young a…

Do you really believe there is no such thing as a lie?

I don’t want to trust Facebook as an arbiter of anything because their motivations do not align with anything other than personal profit, but people do completely fabricate things and present them as true.

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