Has Intel mastered EVU lithography yet? They've been close for a long time now.
Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
61–70 of 326 posts
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anecdotal but I have a friend who is an engineer in water treatment and he said pipelines aren’t a silver bullet for two reasons: 1. They are leaky so you end up paying more for the same amount of water 2. Wherever you are buying the water from (the source of the pipeline) knows their water is valuable and can charge more
> Wherever you are buying the water from (the source of the pipeline) knows their water is valuable and can charge more Less “knows their water is valuable” than “knows you have a massive, immovable infrastructure investment they have a natural monopoly with respect to.” Pricing piped non-traded commodities are complicated negotiations.
CME now offers water futures for some regions of California.
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
How exactly do you expect to build an EV without ICs? We’ve already tried cars without ICs, they’re noisy polluters. You talk about sustainability like we weren’t pumping carbon into the atmosphere before computers. Also maybe your job is such that you can get by with and old power hungry cpu like the core 2 duo, most people can’t.
> old power hungry cpu note that global CO2 has risen since the birth of my CPU. So I doubt the next gen leads us to make less CO2... I know, the current CPU's consume less energy, but globally, because of the fall in price, I'm pretty confident that the energy saved on the CPU is completely offset by the number of CPU sold.
Plus the total consumption of a CPU doesn't actually go down, they just do more with it. They look at thermal limits more than power consumption, like, how much work can we make it do within these temperature ranges.
Mobile chips are a bit different, but to a point it's the same story there. If you put the chips of today in the smartphones of a decade ago they would probably last a week on a battery charge.
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#64Doesn't chip making a lot of water, most of it in Arizona is fed by Lake Mead? The same reservoir that is at 30% capacity, with acute water shortages and with 4 years of increased precipitation necessary for an adequate refill. We are adding a chip making facility which needs a lot of water here? This sounds like a recipe for disaster whenever there is a period of water stress which appears to be occurring in that re…
https://youtu.be/Dq04GpzRZ0g?t=472
Asianometry did a breakdown on water usage of chip fabs in Taiwan and Arizona, including noting Arizona's state-wide water management plan, and pointing out that land-use wise, a chip plant makes more money per acre (gross revenue, and in property taxes) than other commercial or industrial or farming zones. A gallon of water makes more money in a chip plant than in an almond tree. (Especially since it can be cleaned and reused, rather than evaporated as in a tree.)
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#65Doesn't chip making a lot of water, most of it in Arizona is fed by Lake Mead? The same reservoir that is at 30% capacity, with acute water shortages and with 4 years of increased precipitation necessary for an adequate refill. We are adding a chip making facility which needs a lot of water here? This sounds like a recipe for disaster whenever there is a period of water stress which appears to be occurring in that re…
Probably a good time to remind people that this entire planet is 70% water. Water shortage shouldn't be a thing, but greed and short sightedness is.
> Water shortage shouldn't be a thing, but greed and short sightedness is.
Yup. We'll never ever run out of water. Whatever problems arise, there are solutions for them. People just don't want to pay. They want it cheap and convenient.
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#66Next time the communication department says "less is more", I'll explode. Do we really need to produce more IC's ? Can't we just limit the demand a bit ? Can't we make washing machines, cars, bikes, fridges, dish washers, coffee machines,... without IC's ? My Core2 Duo is 12 years old and I still use it 8 hours a day, do I really need a new generation CPU ? I understand that global economy (and thus employment and ot…
> Do we really need to produce more IC's ? In this case, it's not so much about more ICs (although we do need more right now), but it's who's making the ICs . The US is trying to ramp up their internal production capability, rather than depending on Taiwan as heavily.
And then when (if*) we become independent, and China finally gets the balls to scoop up Taiwan, our administration will be nowhere to be found.
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably a good time to remind people that this entire planet is 70% water. Water shortage shouldn't be a thing, but greed and short sightedness is.
Probably a good time to remind people that only 3% of that is fresh water. Fresh water shortage is definitely a thing.
Desalinization is a thing, and one that's often overlooked because the people holding the purse strings are generally cheap-asses.
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#68Next time the communication department says "less is more", I'll explode. Do we really need to produce more IC's ? Can't we just limit the demand a bit ? Can't we make washing machines, cars, bikes, fridges, dish washers, coffee machines,... without IC's ? My Core2 Duo is 12 years old and I still use it 8 hours a day, do I really need a new generation CPU ? I understand that global economy (and thus employment and ot…
How exactly do you expect to build an EV without ICs? We’ve already tried cars without ICs, they’re noisy polluters. You talk about sustainability like we weren’t pumping carbon into the atmosphere before computers. Also maybe your job is such that you can get by with and old power hungry cpu like the core 2 duo, most people can’t.
Power hungry is not a term I'd use to describe a Core 2 Duo.
Or do CPUs need more power to run as they get older? That would be news to me.
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#69Doesn't chip making a lot of water, most of it in Arizona is fed by Lake Mead? The same reservoir that is at 30% capacity, with acute water shortages and with 4 years of increased precipitation necessary for an adequate refill. We are adding a chip making facility which needs a lot of water here? This sounds like a recipe for disaster whenever there is a period of water stress which appears to be occurring in that re…
> Seems to more closely follow tax breaks and tax income It follows feasibility, AFAIK. All new manufacturing is in Southern US states because they're the ones that allow new plants to be built. The others tie projects down in long, expensive, non-successful environmental studies. At this point, it's easier to bring water to the desert (Arizona) than get approval for a manufacturing facility in a non-desert.
There are many business friendly regions in the US with plenty of water. The mid-West for example. is pretty business friendly. KY, IN, TN, AR, MO, WV, and others all have plenty of water, and more business friendly laws than AZ
Re: Intel breaks ground on $20B Arizona plants as U.S. chip factory race heats up
#70Doesn't chip making a lot of water, most of it in Arizona is fed by Lake Mead? The same reservoir that is at 30% capacity, with acute water shortages and with 4 years of increased precipitation necessary for an adequate refill. We are adding a chip making facility which needs a lot of water here? This sounds like a recipe for disaster whenever there is a period of water stress which appears to be occurring in that re…
> Seems to more closely follow tax breaks and tax income It follows feasibility, AFAIK. All new manufacturing is in Southern US states because they're the ones that allow new plants to be built. The others tie projects down in long, expensive, non-successful environmental studies. At this point, it's easier to bring water to the desert (Arizona) than get approval for a manufacturing facility in a non-desert.
It's more about seismic stability from what I've read. Arizona has much less severe weather than basically anywhere in the US.