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Spaces launch in Element

element.io

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Re: Spaces launch in Element

#61

Post by nerdponx »

lucasverra wrote: post #54
nerdponx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree. The Slack model of having a different login per "server" is good for workplaces, but Discord is incredibly good for "communities", hobby groups, and other casual groups. As suggested by another commenter here, a hybrid model would probably be ideal for Matrix, where you could log into different spaces with different accounts if you want, but aren't forced to. I would go one step further and propose tha…

Use Firefox multi containers for that. [0]: https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/multi-account-co...

I should clarify that I prefer using desktop applications and would rather not have to chat in a browser window (even if the desktop application is technically a web browser internally).

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#62

Post by Arathorn »

nynx wrote: post #57
Arathorn wrote: post #31

For what it’s worth, the thing I find really exciting about Spaces is that they provide a way to create a decentralised global hierarchical directory structure for realtime data. It’s like a free-for-all global USENET hierarchy that anyone can curate or contribute to, complete with decentralised ACLs. Or like DMOZ but for chatrooms. We haven’t published a “root” space as Matrix.org yet (as the “subspace” hierarchy fe…

That sounds amazing. Something I’ve been wondering is if matrix supports specifying custom UIs for rooms somehow. For example, could a room have the ui of an issue tracker without it being through an additional program or website?

Yup. We call this "widgets", and it lets you embed arbitrary web UI into a Matrix client. MSC1236 is the base proposal (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/1236) which Element implements, and there are a stack of other proposals on top of it which need to be merged into the main spec.

This is how Element embeds Jitsi today, and was extensively used for FOSDEM 2021 (https://matrix.org/blog/2021/02/15/how-we-hosted-fosdem-2021...). We're currently adding "full-screen" widgets too, though, as well as "inline widgets" (for polls etc).

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#63

Post by Arathorn »

MayeulC wrote: post #60
Arathorn wrote: post #31

For what it’s worth, the thing I find really exciting about Spaces is that they provide a way to create a decentralised global hierarchical directory structure for realtime data. It’s like a free-for-all global USENET hierarchy that anyone can curate or contribute to, complete with decentralised ACLs. Or like DMOZ but for chatrooms. We haven’t published a “root” space as Matrix.org yet (as the “subspace” hierarchy fe…

That's quite interesting, thanks for the insight! I hadn't thought about the possibility for spaces to replace the room directory, although it will always be needed to some extent. Spaces could also be useful for moderation/reputation, child rooms (and users) could inherit some score from a space. It should be possible to compute the shortest distance between two spaces from a user's perspective. Even stuff like igno…

Space hierarchies already have a binary social graph effectively in the form of their decentralised ACLs (i.e. PLs etc). You could group MSC2313 (https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/pull/2313) reputation lists into a space hierarchy though to curate them though... and assign reputation to spaces similarly to rooms via MSC2313 too.

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#64

Post by MayeulC »

thibaultamartin wrote: post #50
hda111 wrote: post #34

Thinks looks interesting. For replacing Discord. Is there also an audio chat function?

Voice Messages are thing, but are not exactly like Discord voice rooms: https://element.io/blog/introducing-voice-messages-and-so-mu... But Matrix is an open protocol that everyone can improve. The Specifications Change Proposals are open to everyone willing to formalise the change they want, get it reviewed, and implement it so it works in practice. And there is a Matrix Spec Change going in the direction of Discord…

I have suggested integrating with Mumble before, it would be a great way to interact.

Add a "info.mumble.servers" or "info.mumble.channels" state event, some magic on murmur's side to authenticate using Matrix, and roll with it in your own Matrix client. Pinned messages with mumble:// URIs could be used as a fallback.

One of the issues is that upstream mumble lacks support for websockets, so web clients are impossible. Otherwise, it sounds quite promising.

I even suggested something along these lines, but haven't had time to cook up a prototype: https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble/issues/1813#issuecomme... (there seems to have been some back-and-forth on that idea since then).

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#66

Post by spinax »

Arathorn wrote: post #29
bajsejohannes wrote: post #8

This seems to built for people with a lot of rooms/people. I think it's a classic mistake to enable it for all users, and I see it in all kinds of products. Everyone starts out by building something simple, but eventually it's bloated with features that I don't need (I'm sure someone does). Personally, I use matrix every day. However, it's only for a single room. With this new feature, I lost 70 "pixels" (or 140 actu…

You’re right that spaces aren’t useful if you’re only in one room(!). Just like a mail client doesn’t need to support mail folders if you only ever have one conversation going on. As others have said, we’ll add the option to hide the spacepanel if you want. Also, you may want to just use a much simpler Matrix client (eg https://hydrogen.element.io - the lightest element!) if you’re only in one room. In general, Space…

Hello! Hydrogen sorely needs 2 basic things to make it usable as a daily driver - separate DM one-on-one conversations away from Rooms and add a Dark mode toggle. These two things push me back to app.element.io, must-have not nice-to-have things for me. Thanks for listening.

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#67

Post by kevincox »

nerdponx wrote: post #38
normaler wrote: post #14

I use spaces to organize different bridged services, Whatsapp, Instagram, Telegram, Signal and Matrix itself. As a subset of rooms to organize a team, I think it would make more sense to host a separate matrix instance. But it can be nice to give access to a set of rooms in a public community akin to: - General - Dev Product A - Dev Product B - Watercooler - Sysad

I do this with spaces too. But it occurred to me that I'm essentially abusing spaces to act like client-side folders/groupings of rooms. Can you create a space that's only for "personal" use, if you are not an admin of your home server? Spaces are a great feature, but I think clients will start needing to add grouping/tagging somehow, in addition.

Spaces are a superset of tagging. Just create a space (tag) and the rooms that you want to tag to it. If you want it to be just for you keep the space invite-only, if you want to share your "tag" you can.

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#68

Post by crowbahr »

sanqui wrote: post #4

Super exciting. Time to start bridging Discord servers to Matrix Spaces and encouraging people to switch, one community at a time.

I wish there was a good Discord:Matrix bridge but I've never been able to get anything useful working nor does it seem like Discord will ever allow something like that on their platform.

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#69

Post by encryptluks2 »

diftraku wrote: post #45
Arathorn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Multiaccount is desperately needed in Element. Other Matrix clients (FluffyChat, Quaternion, possibly Nheko?) have it already though)... plus you can always cheat and just open Element in multiple browser tabs :)

I got around the single-account limitation on Element by installing a work profile on my Android phone using Shelter[1]. I initially spotted this from HN while we were looking at migrating from Slack to Matrix and I wanted to keep my personal account separate. Works surprisingly well for my use-case (keep work stuff separate on Element) and even allows me to disconnect completely from work by simply turning off the p…

Not really a proper solution for 98% of the public

Re: Spaces launch in Element

#70

Post by encryptluks2 »

sanqui wrote: post #4

Super exciting. Time to start bridging Discord servers to Matrix Spaces and encouraging people to switch, one community at a time.

Except many servers are unreliable and overloaded. Plus, Discord audio just works and you don't have to worry about your chats randomly disappearing.
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