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Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

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Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#61

The Dell N1100 is a nice switch, but a relatively new product ( Below is my survey response to their support feedback request: 1) The products should not have a built-in time-bomb that causes them to stop working after only a few years. 2) Dell should have informed us of this issue by email. Instead they left a very "phishing" like voicemail on a manager's phone. (Not the phone of the registered point-of-contract for…

> The products should not have a built-in time-bomb that causes them to stop working after only a few years.

First Turtle Beach bricked my Audiotron by abandoning the web site required for it to function, then Grace Digital bricked my three GD streaming devices for the same reason.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more practical in many places now to use leftover "hardline" phone plugs, especially because when they are disconnected from service they are sometimes quite literally disconnected and you have much fewer concerns about bleedover into neighbors. Speeds won't be great for that sort of ethernet-over-phone wire, especially because most landlines used awful, cheeap wires, but in some cases it is faster than p…

I've seen a lot of phone runs done with cat5e. Phone line adapters might not even be necessary in many cases, only new wallplates!

My house has all cat5e, and I've been very happy with it. Much faster and more reliable than wifi.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#63

Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" [0] Basically, buy these adaptors and for ~$100, you can have create a "wired" LAN connection using power outlets in a home. [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-powerline-adaptors

I have had these jump outside of my house. I realize how crazy it sounds, but I had a pair (they were not encrypted - this was long ago, and I don't even know if encrypted ones existed) and my neighbor had a pair. I would, very occasionally, end up getting DHCP answered by the router in their network. It took forever to figure out what was causing this, and I eventually figured it out by doing a (very slow) IP scan o…

Doesn't sound crazy at all, there's not really anything in your breaker panel or your meter or the outside wiring designed to stop these signals, it's just that there's also nothing designed to help the signals make it through all that, so you wouldn't expect it to continue beyond your house. Just like they tend not to work very well when used on different circuits, they shouldn't work very well outside your house, which is certainly not on the same breaker at all.

I think the newer ones all have some sort of encryption/pairing system which at least helps you ignore your neighbors transmissions.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#64

Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" [0] Basically, buy these adaptors and for ~$100, you can have create a "wired" LAN connection using power outlets in a home. [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-powerline-adaptors

You can also get these for running ethernet over coax as well. Can't speak of the experience, though I'd bet it would be better than over power because it is isolated.

My apartment has some places that have coax runs but not ethernet runs.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#65
post #4

My main thought reading this as a non-network admin was of Mr Robot, and all the Linux installs on low level hardware used for hacks on that show. Very interesting read and lots of upside to what is discussed, but the thought of the uncountable, almost invisible operating systems running in a large network give me a odd feeling in the pit of my stomach. So many potential places for malfeasance to hide.

Keep that feeling in the pit of your stomach for a few years. Watch as a multitude of forces (mostly related to surveillance capitalism) foist billions of such devices on unsuspecting consumers. Tell anyone who'll listen, how shortsighted this is, how much of a fall it's setting us up for. Watch it happen anyway. Watch it accelerate. Watch the devices grow in complexity, capability, connectivity, and vulnerability. W…

Cyberpunk used to be fiction. It disgusts me when I realize I'm already living in it.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#66
post #48
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not potential; do you know about Intel ME, cellphone baseband firmware, Apple's new on-phone CSAM scanning plans, and yellow printer dots?

Intel ME and cellular baseband are particularly worrisome. They are essentially separate and inaccessible (outside of very restricted APIs) systems with their own CPU, running their own OS and applications with the lowest level access to all hardware.

Cellular baseband modem is especially evil since lack of software freedom is mandated by law. It controls the phone's radiofrequency emissions which means it must only ever run government-approved software. There's just no telling what this thing does and the best we can hope for is isolation from the rest of the phone.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more practical in many places now to use leftover "hardline" phone plugs, especially because when they are disconnected from service they are sometimes quite literally disconnected and you have much fewer concerns about bleedover into neighbors. Speeds won't be great for that sort of ethernet-over-phone wire, especially because most landlines used awful, cheeap wires, but in some cases it is faster than p…

Even if you could manage to find some ADSL+ equipment, you are going to tap out at around 48Mbps, I'm not sure if you can push unshielded, twisted 2-pair wire any faster. One downside would be that all of the phone jacks in the house are tied together, it would be a A->B kind of connection. I regularly get much faster speeds with my powerline adapters and if you have multiples paired, they create an actual network on…

If you've got two pair, you can probably run 100BaseTx, even if the cable is not up to cat5 spec, especially if the runs are short and separated from other lines; Ethernet specs are for 100 meter distances most of which is in a tight conduit with other high frequency data transmissions. Old in-home phone wiring is likely not tightly packed or very long.

If you've got an old house with old telephone wiring, it's probably wired as a bus, if you want to re-use that for ethernet, you'll want to split it up so each phone jack gets wired as two ethernet jacks; one in each direction. If you're using ethernet in the room, you'll need a (small) switch, and you'll want to be careful to buy 10/100 switches if you've only got two pair as Ethernet autonegotiation can easily do the wrong thing and you don't want to pay for managed switches in each room. If there's no ethernet use in a room, still wire it up for two ports, but put a small patch cable between the two.

If you've got star topology phone wiring, there's a better chance of cat5 cabling and 4-pair and you can run gigE. GigE will sometimes run on cat3 for small distances too though. The only question is if the central location where the star wires meet is convenient for a switch. In a pinch, you can use a PoE powered switch and power it from one of the other ends of the star.

Of course, some houses are a mix of star and bus or generally some form of tree. Anywhere that there's a branch, you want to put one ethernet port for each direction. And hopefully all the branches are accessible.

There's really no need for DSL equipment in your own home, unless you've only got one pair wiring.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#68
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more practical in many places now to use leftover "hardline" phone plugs, especially because when they are disconnected from service they are sometimes quite literally disconnected and you have much fewer concerns about bleedover into neighbors. Speeds won't be great for that sort of ethernet-over-phone wire, especially because most landlines used awful, cheeap wires, but in some cases it is faster than p…

Even if you could manage to find some ADSL+ equipment, you are going to tap out at around 48Mbps, I'm not sure if you can push unshielded, twisted 2-pair wire any faster. One downside would be that all of the phone jacks in the house are tied together, it would be a A->B kind of connection. I regularly get much faster speeds with my powerline adapters and if you have multiples paired, they create an actual network on…

Oh, you can push old aluminum phone wire faster than 48 Mbps! The VDSL2 service I use can reach up to 135 Mbps, and while the wiring in my apartment is new, the building's isn't at all.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#69
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more practical in many places now to use leftover "hardline" phone plugs, especially because when they are disconnected from service they are sometimes quite literally disconnected and you have much fewer concerns about bleedover into neighbors. Speeds won't be great for that sort of ethernet-over-phone wire, especially because most landlines used awful, cheeap wires, but in some cases it is faster than p…

I've seen a lot of phone runs done with cat5e. Phone line adapters might not even be necessary in many cases, only new wallplates!

You can actually use old-fashioned four conductor phone wiring for Ethernet, but it's limited to 10 mbps. Still useful in a few situations if it's all you have available.

Re: Teaching a cheap ethernet switch new tricks (2019)

#70
post #44
post #4

My main thought reading this as a non-network admin was of Mr Robot, and all the Linux installs on low level hardware used for hacks on that show. Very interesting read and lots of upside to what is discussed, but the thought of the uncountable, almost invisible operating systems running in a large network give me a odd feeling in the pit of my stomach. So many potential places for malfeasance to hide.

They're not potential; do you know about Intel ME, cellphone baseband firmware, Apple's new on-phone CSAM scanning plans, and yellow printer dots?

Another fun one is the "EURion constellation", a set of features on printed currency that photoshop and color copiers will read and then refuse to operate on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation
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