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An ultimate guide to memory palaces

metacognitive.me

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#61
post #10

I've trained my memory over the last ~5 years. I became fascinated with oral cultures. How could they transmit enough knowledge to survive and basically confer PhD level knowledge of survival without books? How could they remember it all? How does your experience of the world change when every place you find yourself is (mentally) chock full of (your most prized) memories? I also wanted to get more out of reading. I…

Have you seen this? "Ancient Australian Aboriginal Memory Tool Superior to ‘Memory Palace’" https://neurosciencenews.com/aboriginal-memory-technique-184...

Do you have a source with more detail on the actual technique? They are a bit sparse on details.

It sounds like combining the spatial map with narrative stories, right?

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#62
post #10

I've trained my memory over the last ~5 years. I became fascinated with oral cultures. How could they transmit enough knowledge to survive and basically confer PhD level knowledge of survival without books? How could they remember it all? How does your experience of the world change when every place you find yourself is (mentally) chock full of (your most prized) memories? I also wanted to get more out of reading. I…

This sounds awesome! Makes me want to have a look at memory palaces again.

In your experience:

Do you ever "refactor" you maps to show updated understanding? Or do you find that this happens naturally?

Do connections between different areas stand out or form?

Do you have examples of notices patterns or structure in knowledge because of it?

Thanks

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#63

Has anyone used this approach to memorize music? E.g., for playing an instrument. I used to be able to remember plenty when I was young and practicing a lot. And certainly professionals can remember significant amounts (and not just the music, but performance details, fingerings, etc). Seems like a different mechanism, relying less on visual and spatial associations, more on hearing. But perhaps it's similar in that…

In the renascence there was a standardized system of memorized hand symbols to recall music. For guitar you can memorize fingerings by creating a person action object system in a way that tells you the fingering, the string and the fret number in one image. You can then use this to memorize classical music. With music you are going from conscious to unconscious procedural memory. But you can "double encode" using memory palaces and systems for a "backup". (It can actually help you learn it faster because you can get rid of sheet music)

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#64

Has anyone used this approach to memorize music? E.g., for playing an instrument. I used to be able to remember plenty when I was young and practicing a lot. And certainly professionals can remember significant amounts (and not just the music, but performance details, fingerings, etc). Seems like a different mechanism, relying less on visual and spatial associations, more on hearing. But perhaps it's similar in that…

The circle of fifths can be studied (and often is) with the loci method. Visualising the circle of fifths, with the relative minors, as a real space that can be moved around in is very helpful.

Music theory is full of little mnemonics, and is itself a sort of system of mnemonics:

Instead of an infinite gradation of frequencies, they are reduced to 12 repeating notes within each doubling, so that a 440 Hz vibration is an A, as is a 220 and an 880 Hz vibration.

If instead of doubling a frequency, we add a half to it again for a 2:3 ratio, we get a perfect fifth. By repeating this process (with some fudges) we end up with twelve notes, the circle of fifths, and the vast majority of Western music.

Rather than simplistically giving these 12 notes 12 letters, they get 7, in a clever system that allows for all 24/30 major and minor scales to have one of each letter A to G.

The 7 notes in any particular major or minor scale can be combined with each other to form chords. Major and minor chords each share a root and a fifth; the third is different by a single semitone. The combinations of three notes that sound nice together are thus greatly simplified.

Once the circle of fifths is internalised, all 24 (or 30 - ask Wooten) major and minor chords can be constructed, transposed, and played with.

So, when an experienced musician hears a song they can put all of that background to work. Instead of remembering each indivudal note played, the notes are chunked into chords, hich are chunked into keys and progressions. Once contextualised with similar pieces the memorisation becomes easier and easier. By the time all of that contextual data is assimilated, with music that is _felt_, there isn't much need (I'd imagine) for good musicians to use memory palaces for fingerings or performance details. I'd say a lot of that knowledge is in the hands, the breath, and the whole body.

Disclaimer: I am not a very good musician (yet).

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#65
post #58

Isn't there a "no free lunch" about remembering as well? Yes, memory training is probably a good idea but how do you pick what to store there in the first place? Forgetting things -properly- is an underappreciated skill in my opinion.

There are 2 types of information for me:

- For fun. Often not relevant and not practical. It's easy to forget because I don't use it. Though, I may intentionally review the information to "beat" the forgetting curve. Thus, this kind of information will be stored for more time. Artificially forced.

- For practical use. This kind of information is easier to retain because it's not raw: a practice will add more "missing dots" and solidify what's learned.

A forgetting process is a good filter of what we use and what we don't. The retained information indicates what things one should keep in mind.

The memory palace technique is more about forcing even impractical information to retain. I'd say one should define what kind of information should be remembered in this case.

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#66
post #10

I've trained my memory over the last ~5 years. I became fascinated with oral cultures. How could they transmit enough knowledge to survive and basically confer PhD level knowledge of survival without books? How could they remember it all? How does your experience of the world change when every place you find yourself is (mentally) chock full of (your most prized) memories? I also wanted to get more out of reading. I…

This sounds awesome! Makes me want to have a look at memory palaces again. In your experience: Do you ever "refactor" you maps to show updated understanding? Or do you find that this happens naturally? Do connections between different areas stand out or form? Do you have examples of notices patterns or structure in knowledge because of it? Thanks

> Do you ever "refactor" you maps to show updated understanding? Or do you find that this happens naturally?

Yes. I often add on things. So let's say I read a book and years later I realize that the author omitted something very important (IMHO). Then, I just add that knowledge to the appropriate room. I naturally remember what was or wasn't part of the book. With these systems you're training your mind to think a specific sequence of thoughts (in the act of recalling the experience of your mind palace). With training even the recall becomes fast. However,... you can't easy delete (not after rehearsing something for years). It's about as easy to delete something as it is to change a bad habit. It's just easier to make new habits (or add new information).

> Do connections between different areas stand out or form?

This is one of the coolest things that happens. A kind of thinking becomes possible that isn't available without the "whole topic" loaded in mind. You can see broad expansive connections. One fun activity (that you can do right now with two decks of flash cards) is to compare and contrast different books. Mentally walk both of them simultaneously forwards and backwards. You'll see how the connect and differ.

> Do you have examples of notices patterns or structure in knowledge because of it? Sure

First with encoding... _where_ things occur in your memory palace is "free" information. So some people when learning foreign languages store different genders in different cities. Say you're trying to recall the gender of Boot (boat in German). You think, "where is that boot shaped like a boat?" instantly you know it's in a cafe in Williamsburg which is where you put all the "das" verbs making it "das Boot".

You say you're encoding the periodic table, if you put all the columns in the same room, you know instantly that you could replace your Gallium doping with Indium in your Si wafer (in this toy example).

If you want to learn the party trick of knowing which day of the week someone was born on. You can either get good at mental math and learn the equation and calculate it. Or, you can make a system of rooms in which you stick people who represent all the possible years to "cache" part of the calculation. Then the problem reduces to addition of small numbers.

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen this? "Ancient Australian Aboriginal Memory Tool Superior to ‘Memory Palace’" https://neurosciencenews.com/aboriginal-memory-technique-184...

Do you have a source with more detail on the actual technique? They are a bit sparse on details. It sounds like combining the spatial map with narrative stories, right?

If you want to learn more about indigenous memory techniques read: "Memory Craft" by Dr. Lynne Kelly and "Sand Talk" by one of the authors of the experiment in question.

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#68

Has anyone used this approach to memorize music? E.g., for playing an instrument. I used to be able to remember plenty when I was young and practicing a lot. And certainly professionals can remember significant amounts (and not just the music, but performance details, fingerings, etc). Seems like a different mechanism, relying less on visual and spatial associations, more on hearing. But perhaps it's similar in that…

As someone who, back when I used to play (semi-professionally) I preferred to memorise all my music, I would say that memorising pieces for me was "effortless", and thus needed no technique, provided that when I would first study a piece, the intent was specifically to memorise it, rather than, say, to sight read, or analyse it.

I always found it extremely odd that, if the memorisation intent was not there, no amount of exposure would lead to effective memorisation. E.g. I could sight read an accompaniment 50 times and I would not remember most of it; once I decided to study specifically with the intent of "memorising" the piece, typically a handful of passes would be enough.

Scott Adams recently said something similar in one of his coffee podcasts. He made an experiment with himself: he has a short "skit" he always starts his show with, and he made a bet with himself how long it would take, if ever, to memorise that skit, simply by reading it, with no intentional effort to memorise it.

So far it's been over a year afaik :)

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#69
post #59

I tend to eschew memory techniques. Often I find forgetting is a feature and not a bug - garbage collection of the memory system if you like: a sign that (given the current presentation) the data doesn't seem relevant enough to retain. But as a child I was an avid reader and I scoured the libraries of my youth and naturally built up spatial memory maps for them. I'm in my 40s now, but I still have a sense of where an…

Learning something is different than using a memorizing technique. The former is for understanding and the latter is for putting impractical information. However, we may utilize the techniques to speed up or enhance the learning process.

>the latter is for putting impractical information

You can also input practical information ;)

Re: An ultimate guide to memory palaces

#70

Moonwalking with Einstein de-mystified memory for me. As mrock described, in the beginning it was a lot of work building palaces and making associations, but like a muscle, things quickly got easier. In time, memorizing a list of 30 or so became pretty easy. I was able to memorize a list of 875 North American bird species and then recite it from memory. Took about 35 min to read it all back.

That's awesome. Did it change your relationship with or experience of birds?
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