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Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

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Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#61

Post by albertopv »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #27
kelnos wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is clickbait; I think any normal user would think that closing the lid puts the laptop into a state where putting it in a bag is entirely safe to do. Microsoft seems to have decided to entirely break this expectation such that closing the lid of a laptop puts it into this weird not-really-suspended state, such that putting it in a confined space could cause it to overheat. It's... pretty user-unfri…

> I think any normal user would think that closing the lid puts the laptop into a state where putting it in a bag is entirely safe to do. Closing the lid does not necessarily turn the laptop off at all (by design). I think most people have had that experience. In fact the lid may be closed with the laptop fully on. In any case, they make is explicit and clear exactly to avoid any such assumption. The title is obvious…

Most people I know are not techincal and think that closing the lapton shuts it down, or something equivalent and I don't think any of them knows anything about Modern Standby. But I agree title could have been more clear if it included a reference to stand by.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#62

Post by codeflo »

karteum wrote: post #38
kelnos wrote: post #8

The issue is that Windows doesn't go into S3 sleep when you close the lid; it goes into a weird not-really-asleep state for... some reason that I don't agree with[0]. I guess that state is "hot" enough that you could damage the laptop by putting it in a bag while in that state. Fortunately I've been running Linux on my XPS 13, which I have put into a bag hundreds of times (maybe even over a thousand) while suspended.…

> "some reason that I don't agree with[0]" On my side I am quite happy that the hardware+software can support some kind of fast wake-up (similar to Macbooks and smartphones instead of needing >10 seconds to wake up when I open the lid). I just do a real shutdown when I don't need the laptop anymore. And precisely : as it was said by someone else above, on modern computers with SSDs, I would rather disable "fast start…

The value of fast wakeup is real. But manufacturers and OS vendors need to actually get their act together and implement this, not fake it in a way that passes reviews but is actually damaging to hardware in the real world.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#63

Post by ho_schi »

Linux -> Suspend -> S3 You just need ensure that the laptop successfully suspended and it never made a problem with mit ThinkPads.

Like others pointed out, the problem for Dell seems caused by the awkward additional standbys introduced by Microsoft "Modern Standby" and so on. We still miss some similar power target to what phones use. Probably 'systemctl suspend' should mean hard S3 and LID-Close something like phones behavior.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#64

Post by creshal »

sandGorgon wrote: post #14
kelnos wrote: post #8

The issue is that Windows doesn't go into S3 sleep when you close the lid; it goes into a weird not-really-asleep state for... some reason that I don't agree with[0]. I guess that state is "hot" enough that you could damage the laptop by putting it in a bag while in that state. Fortunately I've been running Linux on my XPS 13, which I have put into a bag hundreds of times (maybe even over a thousand) while suspended.…

Oh wow. i did NOT know that. Even worse... > Switching between S3 and Modern Standby cannot be done by changing a setting in the BIOS. Switching the power model is not supported in Windows without a complete OS re-install. and on Reddit > Warning: if your laptop is newer than 2019, there is a high chance, your OEM removed any S3 code from the bios, and your laptop will crash entering S3 and you have to force hold pow…

Seems to be mostly a Dell/Microsoft problem, haven't heard of other vendors removing S3 functionality (yet, anyway).

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#65

Post by harlekein »

gotstad wrote: post #54

I will never buy a Dell XPS laptop again. The exterior build quality seems very good, but the internals are such a mess. I cannot count how many times I have been biking home from work and heard in my headphones "Two devices connected", realizing that my Dell XPS had woken up and would - once again - be red hot when I arrived home and pulled it out of my bag.

I've had three generations of the XPS 13. The first I had had a few issues, but fixable. (Even though I agree, this shouldn't even have occurred) The second one was flawless. The last one was worse than the first and it's my last.

I've set my sights on Lenovo now. X1 Carbon is supposed to be really good for Linux and you can buy it with Ubuntu or no OS installed.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#66

Post by dathinab »

captn3m0 wrote: post #50
vesinisa wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so infuriating, because this problem has already been solved once. It's called "Hibernation", and was added in Windows 95. This should write your MEM image to disk, power the laptop completely off and allow later restoring where you left when powering your laptop back on. But laptop manufacturers (including Apple) thought it somehow smart to remove true hibernation, and replace it with some botched "deep slee…

There’s some really interesting security challenges that pop-up with Hibernation. Not sure if they blocked Apple though.

Not really, this security challenge have been solved long ago, and require a degree of involvement which makes them irrelevant for most people.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#67

Post by lmilcin »

JonyEpsilon wrote: post #37

I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating. I think there's two separate things going on: As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the la…

I just can't understand how people put up with not being able to control what they primary machines are doing.

For that reason my primary work machine can currently only be Linux. I have Windows, but this one is only for stuff that is incompatible with Linux.

I actually have Linux PC and a separate Linux laptop (Thinkpad T440s).

That laptop runs super cool once I debugged all the sources of power usage. Which is quite easy on Linux but neigh impossible on Windows.

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#68

Post by slezyr »

vesinisa wrote: post #23
qwerty456127 wrote: post #12

> With regards to transporting your laptop, you must first turn the laptop OFF This has been a problem for already quite long. I remember my very old laptop overheating if being put in the backpack in Standby mode. Nowadays I in fact don't just turn laptops Off the default way. I go and disable the "fast start up" (Control Panel - Power Options - Choose what the power buttons do) to make sure the computer gets turnt…

This is so infuriating, because this problem has already been solved once. It's called "Hibernation", and was added in Windows 95. This should write your MEM image to disk, power the laptop completely off and allow later restoring where you left when powering your laptop back on. But laptop manufacturers (including Apple) thought it somehow smart to remove true hibernation, and replace it with some botched "deep slee…

It might be slower than cold boot on machines with 32GB of RAM

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#69

Post by bestouff »

tome wrote: post #26
bestouff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler: I have an XPS 9500 under Linux, which sleeps fine under S3 but then it never wakes up. So the problem isn't with Windows.

What does "never wakes up" mean? I thought I had the same problem but then I discovered that closing and opening the lid is the only way to get it to wake. Neither the power button (it turns it off) nor keypresses (they do nothing) work.

I think I tried everything, from buttons to lid to magic network packets. Once in S3 it's dead Jim, and there's nothing in the BIOS to change that behavior.

The irony is that I have a 4 years old XPS 13 where everything works like a charm, even under Linux. Talk about progress ...

Re: Do not leave XPS laptop in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag

#70

Post by da39a3ee »

This is why people use Apple laptops. I’d be fine using Linux as my OS. But my employer issues my laptop and chooses the model. If serious non-Apple laptop manufacturers are still making crap like this, how do I know my employer won’t choose hardware as bad as this for their Windows and Linux employees?
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