Reactive Clojure: A web language • Hacker News Board

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#61

Post by outworlder » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

Diggsey wrote: post #58

delegate wrote: post #27

This is not reinvention of PHP as some are commenting. In fact I think this is extremely cool. If I understand it correctly, it allows you to achieve reactive data flow in a single page app without any boilerplate. Meaning - you update the database on the server and all the relevant UI(s) will automatically receive the updated data and re-render only the parts of the UI that display that data. This would require a to…

> Imagine a programming language runtime whose runtime state (i.e. lexical scope) is partially broadcast over network as it happens, kind of like a remote debugger. This sounds absolutely terrifying from a security perspective... What's to stop a malicious client from broadcasting code that deletes my entire database?

> runtime state

> code

Some overlap, but these are essentially two different things.

> What's to stop a malicious client from broadcasting code that deletes my entire database?

Your backend.

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#62

Post by Datsundere » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

I think people are overlooking the fact that javascript and css is a hot mess to deal with. We need something like flutter that makes maintaining these easier.

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#63

Post by rowland66 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

I think that several of the fallacies of distributed computing are being ignored here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_distributed_compu...

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#64

Post by zerr » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

pkage wrote: post #39

This reminds me of Meteor.js[0] from back in the day (2014?), which had a very similar approach—you wrote code that ran on both the frontend and the backend, and database updates were propagated automatically. It suffered from a pretty hard reliance on Mongodb and its own package manager (Atmosphere), and it was at odds with the rest of the JS ecosystem which was settling on NPM. This project looks very cool! I like…

And http://opalang.org/

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#65

Post by athenot » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

This reminds me a lot of imba[1], which mixes the front end and the back end. Though ReactiveClojure seems to be more about reasoning in terms of a lisp for all parts of the app, whereas imba is more focused on reducing syntax noise as much as possible.

[1] https://imba.io

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#66

Post by gdsdfe » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #30

danpalmer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

To expand on the snarky response, or explain my thinking... I think more and more the lines are blurred between open source projects, and products. This is good and bad. It's good because people making money out of open source projects probably means more open source projects, more support available, and a healthier tech industry. It's bad because as someone with no intention of turning a few open source libraries in…

I get that and I agree with you but then if it's a project why do I need to ask for early access, if it's a product then why launch a web tech on notion? one would expect to build the website with the so called web language and have the proof in the pudding like they say.

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#67

Post by Kaze404 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

hungryforcodes wrote: post #38

marstall wrote: post #6

As a web developer with 25 years of experience and (I thought) up to the minute skills ... I have no idea what any of that means but it sounds cool and important and I want to try it.

More work and learning basically in "front end" land, before you can do anything practical -- as usual.

Because software engineers are known for being people who are averse to learning and trying new things out.

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#68

Post by hk__2 » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

delegate wrote: post #27

This is not reinvention of PHP as some are commenting. In fact I think this is extremely cool. If I understand it correctly, it allows you to achieve reactive data flow in a single page app without any boilerplate. Meaning - you update the database on the server and all the relevant UI(s) will automatically receive the updated data and re-render only the parts of the UI that display that data. This would require a to…

> Meaning - you update the database on the server and all the relevant UI(s) will automatically receive the updated data and re-render only the parts of the UI that display that data.

> This would require a ton of PHP and Javascript dealing with networking, websockets, routing, serializing data and so on.

I don’t know how it was implemented, but Quora had this back in its early days (~2012). There was some mechanism that "remembered" which table lines were used to generate which UI component, and when that data changed you had a live-reload in your browser. That was really cool to see at the time; I’d love to have more background on its implementation.

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#69

Post by nbardy » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

This is great. It's the dream that was promised 4-5 years ago of with om and reagent fully realized.

Re: Reactive Clojure: A web language

#70

Post by awinter-py » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

'compiler managed network' in here is a useful concept

buildsystems are increasingly doing the heavy lifting of telling backend how to deliver a pre-hydrated frontend, and telling frontend how to speak backend's language

would be nicer if this was just types and schemas, so you didn't have to use a full-stack framework to get full-stack accelerations and linting