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Revolt of the Delivery Workers

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Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#61

Post by InfiniteRand »

tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

I think you should always take these type of articles with a grain of salt. The author seems keen to play up the drama

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#62

Post by jake_morrison »

zelos wrote: post #9
michaelmrose wrote: post #7

These workers by and large aren't carrying money worth stealing they are being robbed of expensive e-bikes. If these bikes were configured to become inoperable if they couldn't either phone home or talk to the users device then there would be no point in stealing them because nobody would buy them. The end user could authorize their own new devices unless they lost access to both devices and info needed to do so and…

That's a good idea, although this: "He reported both to the police, but the cases went nowhere, an experience common enough that many workers have concluded calling 911 is a waste of time." Is so frustrating. The theft of thousands of dollars worth of equipment with the threat of violence in a known location and the police aren't interested?

Too busy arresting people for victimless crimes like smoking pot.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#63

Post by karlkloss »

Gaessaki wrote: post #43

We’ve recently started deploying expensive e-cargo bikes for our food delivery coop[1] to try to whittle down our carbon footprint and increase efficiency in urban areas. We have a similar problem of trying to protect our delivery assets (though not nearly as bad as the plight of the gig workers in the article given that our workers can count on the coop and also because Montreal is generally safer than NYC). Our thr…

Forget folding locks. They're too easy to break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8uyPsDaw0

I think that bike theft should be handled the way that horse theft was handled in the wild west.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#64

Post by noja »

Gaessaki wrote: post #43

We’ve recently started deploying expensive e-cargo bikes for our food delivery coop[1] to try to whittle down our carbon footprint and increase efficiency in urban areas. We have a similar problem of trying to protect our delivery assets (though not nearly as bad as the plight of the gig workers in the article given that our workers can count on the coop and also because Montreal is generally safer than NYC). Our thr…

Make your bikes uglier.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#65

Post by Gaessaki »

karlkloss wrote: post #63
Gaessaki wrote: post #43

We’ve recently started deploying expensive e-cargo bikes for our food delivery coop[1] to try to whittle down our carbon footprint and increase efficiency in urban areas. We have a similar problem of trying to protect our delivery assets (though not nearly as bad as the plight of the gig workers in the article given that our workers can count on the coop and also because Montreal is generally safer than NYC). Our thr…

Forget folding locks. They're too easy to break. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8uyPsDaw0 I think that bike theft should be handled the way that horse theft was handled in the wild west.

Yeah, I’ve been following LPL’s videos and it seems like securing a bike with a lock from even a moderately determined attacker seems to be a hopeless task.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#66

Post by ThePadawan »

rightbyte wrote: post #41
danuker wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose a step towards automating the jobs is to break them down into manageable, replaceable pieces. For example, there have appeared automated boxes for recipients to pick up packages.

> For example, there have appeared automated boxes for recipients to pick up packages. You mean a mail box?

(I cannot tell if you're being sarcastic or genuine).

Yes, except (before COVID) if you were at work, and the mail carrier tried to deliver a package to your house unsuccessfully, they would take it with them again. Or they would leave it outside the house, where it could be stolen.

Then, starting the next day, you could go to the nearest pickup site (and depending on the carrier, this either means the post office, which might be a 20min walk, or a completely-out-of-town parcel distribution site, which could be a 1h15 train ride [based on my own location]) to get it.

There, you would take a number, and wait in line up to 15 minutes (because all working people would be there at that time of day).

The alternative is an automated postal box, which does not need an employee to operate it. It's just a huge wall of lockers with a central terminal. When you receive a package there, you get an electronic unlock code to unlock exactly that 1 locker with your package in it.

These postal boxes can be installed anywhere where spare space is available. Maybe that's platform 5 at your nearest train station, or outside the pharmacy in town. At least it's closer to your home, and open 24/7.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#67

Post by kragen »

sbacic wrote: post #26
jsmith99 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it would not be competitive? Most of these apps are loss making. An open source solution wouldn't involve VCs subsidising your deliveries.

So let me get this straight - it's a bad deal for the restaurants, it's an increasingly bad deal for the deliverymen and it depends on VCs subsidizing it to even work? How did something like this even get funded? I mean, I could understand if the development costs were being funded by VC money, but actual deliveries? Even if one company were to actually dominate the market, it would still need to continue subsidizing…

Operating a two-sided marketplace is one hell of a moat. Nobody's displacing eBay, Amazon, or the Google Play Store anytime soon; even Craigslist seems to be getting by. Here in Argentina, MercadoLibre established an eBay clone before eBay moved in; the consequence was that eBay just bought shares instead of even trying to compete. The VCs are betting that a similar thing will happen with delivery apps: one of them will win, and then they'll be in a position to dictate Apple-like 30% terms to diners and restaurants.

(And, as eru points out, they might be able to establish a regulatory moat to prevent any new entrants from arising once they're established, like the drug and medical device companies. Did you know the first clinical implantation of a cardiac pacemaker was in 01958, only two years after the transistor was invented? The patient died—in 02001, 43 years later. How long do you think it takes an incrementally improved new pacemaker design to get regulatory approval today? Much less a totally new kind of medical device?)

Keep in mind, though, that "VCs are betting" doesn't mean that the VCs think this is the most likely outcome, even the ones who did invest. It just means they think it's sufficiently plausible that if it does happen they want to own a piece of it.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#68

Post by Gaessaki »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #57
Gaessaki wrote: post #43

We’ve recently started deploying expensive e-cargo bikes for our food delivery coop[1] to try to whittle down our carbon footprint and increase efficiency in urban areas. We have a similar problem of trying to protect our delivery assets (though not nearly as bad as the plight of the gig workers in the article given that our workers can count on the coop and also because Montreal is generally safer than NYC). Our thr…

>Our primary challenge has been finding the ideal way to lock the bikes while dismounted. The best chain locks are too unwieldy to use for the pace our couriers move at. Wheel locks were interesting but would end up breaking spokes when couriers would inevitably ride them while still locked. We’re currently giving folding locks a go. Open to suggestions if anyone has ideas or experience with other solutions. Possibly…

I like how lightweight and discreet this is. We’ll try it out. Thanks for the share!

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#69

Post by pjc50 »

null_object wrote: post #20
pjc50 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? Especially if it's a bike. Police are incredibly bad at handling low-level property crime.

> Police are incredibly bad at handling low-level property crime. These are somehow strange and inexplicable societal values concerning crime. A cycle blog here in Sweden recently had an article on several really simple measures that could be taken to help curtail bike theft (which is epidemic) but neither the police, insurance companies or reselling sites were interested in their suggestions. Bikes can be worth the…

> societal values concerning crime.

Police do not necessarily reflect the values of wider society, they may have their own values. Ranging from anti-cyclist prejudice to simple workplace laziness - I suspect the grocery guy was caught by staff and all they had to do was take him away.

Re: Revolt of the Delivery Workers

#70

Post by rightbyte »

InfiniteRand wrote: post #61
tazjin wrote: post #51

It's always strange to read these reports from American cities that sound like something out of war-torn countries. Delivery workers grouping together to defend themselves against hordes of bandits, in well-known places, with no police protection? What the ...? This sort of thing would be unthinkable in central Moscow and most other large European city centres (the only European city I've ever felt unsafe in is Bruss…

I think you should always take these type of articles with a grain of salt. The author seems keen to play up the drama

Drama? Didn't the SF DA stop enforcing laws on theft under some arbitrary but quite large value? I would not call it an exaggeration.
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