Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

money.yahoo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 108 posts

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#61

Post by hh3k0 »

nostrebored wrote: post #51
pydry wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This study assumes you must spend less than 30% of your income on housing As long as I can remember a reasonable budget has been assumed to be 1/3 on housing, 1/3 on living expenses and 1/3 on savings. I never really saw that as unreasonable. Are there people who think it's reasonable for an average household budget to be 40% living expenses and 60% housing?

An average household budget doesn't have a single earner. When you're broke, you have roommates. In more expensive places, until you find a partner to live with you often have roommates. This isn't a bad thing.

> This isn't a bad thing.

Counterpoint: It absolutely is.

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#62

Post by tazjin »

dijit wrote: post #3

I’m not entirely sure how we got to this place but it definitely feels this way in the UK too at times, though the circumstances might be different. Housing as an absolute expense has risen faster than income in nearly every developed country that I can think of. But, something that I always bring up when minimum wage is mentioned as a panacea: Sweden does not have a federally mandated minimum wage, but people are pa…

It should be noted that in Swedish cities, especially Stockholm, there is also a completely dysfunctional housing market.

I have personally rented long-term flats in a bunch of cities: Cologne, Stockholm, Oslo, London, Hurghada, Moscow.

Out of these the housing market in Stockholm was by far the worst experience (with the easiest being Oslo & Hurghada). There's nothing on the market because of rent control, official queues are impossibly long (O(years) for anything) and second-hand (third-, ...) apartments are an absolute mess (few tenant rights, tons of short-term contracts, lots of random small issues).

In Stockholm this hits foreigners especially hard as lots of Swedes have inherited a bostadsrätt or hyresrätt (the official equivalents of owning/renting property) and rarely deal with this directly.

In comparison megacities like Moscow and London are much easier to deal with. The market is rough due to often fierce competition but there are tons of properties available for renting and buying at any quality & price point.

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#63

Post by kortilla »

mft_ wrote: post #22
bloodyplonker22 wrote: post #6

Minimum wage is not the problem as this article seems to imply. People move up from those starter jobs, they don't stay there forever. The problem is that the politicians and local governments have enacted strict building and zoning laws which disallow for new housing construction. This, in combination with market forces has driven up the price of housing artificially fast.

> Minimum wage is not the problem as this article seems to imply. People move up from those starter jobs, they don't stay there forever. [citation needed] The phrase 'starter job' may indicate where you're coming from, attitudinally. For many people, of all ages, there aren't starter jobs - they're the only attainable jobs. And I suspect many people bounce around between different similarly-poorly-paid jobs, without…

> For many people, of all ages, there aren't starter jobs - they're the only attainable jobs.

Citation?

I have family members that weren’t very ambitious and they work in these jobs. However, they don’t make minimum wage because nearly every company offers some raises for people who just consistently show up for 6 months+ straight.

In order to be stuck at minimum you have to additionally have stability issues or issues in general that cause you to consistently get fired or pushed out. These habitual min wage earners are not even a meaningful portion of the people earning minimum wage at any given time.

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#64

Post by spicybright »

hh3k0 wrote: post #61
nostrebored wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An average household budget doesn't have a single earner. When you're broke, you have roommates. In more expensive places, until you find a partner to live with you often have roommates. This isn't a bad thing.

> This isn't a bad thing. Counterpoint: It absolutely is.

Why?

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#65

Post by Ekaros »

ravenstine wrote: post #16
DoreenMichele wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America also has a lot of homelessness. Yes, there are homeless people with jobs, contrary to what most people seem to think.

People underestimate the percentage of homeless who live in their cars and shower at the gym, and aren't just the unwashed "bums" sleeping on benches.

That is one solvable group, they just need reasonably priced housing in reasonable locations. The mentally ill and substance abusers(including alcohol), is much more complex issue.

And then there is probably small group you will never house, because they prefer to be homeless. Still doesn't mean the two other groups should not be solved. It is just that there is no political will to build enough housing or solve the systematic issues.

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#66

Post by zpeti »

thunderbird120 wrote: post #23

This is the actual source of the article[1]. The methodology does not support the claim the title makes. >LendingTree used U.S. Department of Labor and U.S. Census Bureau data to determine whether owning or renting a home is affordable to a person working a full-time minimum wage job. Assuming a person could afford to spend up to 30% of their gross monthly income on housing, LendingTree calculated how much in monthly…

The title doesn’t make sense at all to me. If the statement was literally true, what would happen to the millions of minimum wage earners? They literally couldn’t afford rent and would be literally living on the street, or in shelters.

And I’m using the word literally literally.

You can make a case for some sort of relative poverty where they find hardship in renting which is absolutely true, but this clickbait title is just bullshit.

Unaffordable means you cannot pay. It doesn’t mean it’s hard to get by.

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#67

Post by slfnflctd »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #41

It’s worrying that people can’t afford their own home. That feeling of security cannot be understated: knowing where you can sleep for the next night. Everyone living in a rented apartment is under constant survival stress, with a subconscious fear of joblessness and eviction.

Homeowners have the same fears, they're just pushed a little further out. Even if your house is paid off, you still have to worry about property taxes, basic upkeep, insurance (unless you go without and risk losing it all, which leads right back to that stress), possibly large HOA fees... the fact is, unless you have a lot of savings or are 100% certain you'll always have money coming in, no one's safe from anxieties about being able to stay where they live. I agree that it's worse for renters, but owning a house is not what it once was and definitely doesn't make the stress go away.

I have thought for a long time now that basic housing (your own private room with a door, heating/cooling, water and electricity) should be considered a fundamental human right and guaranteed as such by the powers that be. Without such a guarantee, the vast majority of us are going to continue to feel existential dread over the possibility that losing our ability to generate income could lead to being homeless.

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#68

Post by dudul »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #41

It’s worrying that people can’t afford their own home. That feeling of security cannot be understated: knowing where you can sleep for the next night. Everyone living in a rented apartment is under constant survival stress, with a subconscious fear of joblessness and eviction.

Homeowners can also lose their job, not be able to make a mortgage payment and see their house repossessed.

Not saying homeownership isn't more stable than renting, but let's not make it sound like homeowners live in a utopia.

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#69

Post by kylebyproxy »

kortilla wrote: post #63
mft_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Minimum wage is not the problem as this article seems to imply. People move up from those starter jobs, they don't stay there forever. [citation needed] The phrase 'starter job' may indicate where you're coming from, attitudinally. For many people, of all ages, there aren't starter jobs - they're the only attainable jobs. And I suspect many people bounce around between different similarly-poorly-paid jobs, without…

> For many people, of all ages, there aren't starter jobs - they're the only attainable jobs. Citation? I have family members that weren’t very ambitious and they work in these jobs. However, they don’t make minimum wage because nearly every company offers some raises for people who just consistently show up for 6 months+ straight. In order to be stuck at minimum you have to additionally have stability issues or issu…

> nearly every company offers some raises

I've worked at least a dozen jobs. Received exactly 2 raises: one for $0.25, the other $0.33.

> In order to be stuck at minimum you have to additionally have stability issues

Or just not be able to afford a bachelor's degree

Re: Renting 'is unaffordable to minimum wage workers in every state,' study finds

#70

Post by Ekaros »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #41

It’s worrying that people can’t afford their own home. That feeling of security cannot be understated: knowing where you can sleep for the next night. Everyone living in a rented apartment is under constant survival stress, with a subconscious fear of joblessness and eviction.

I don't know renting at reasonable price, doesn't feel more stressful to me than owning.

I could and probably will take a loan for apartment. But if there is market downturn and I lose my job and the value drops I might even lose the place and still have debt left over... Also I'm on hook for any large scale maintenace that housing corporation decides collectively to do. And this can be like half of the value of appartment. Plus as it is corporation I'm possibly also on hook if other shareholders(owners) fail to pay their share...

Post reply on HN