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OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

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Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#61

Post by mekkkkkk »

space_rock wrote: post #27
mekkkkkk wrote: post #12

Anyone surprised by this must be living under a rock. NFTs and crypto in general has turned into mostly an unregulated playground for market manipulation. It's sad to see these fantastic technologies falling into darkness. Same can be said about the majority of the internet and its phenomenon to be honest.

I was agreeing with you until you said fantastic technology. Crypto has always involved outrageous fraudulent claims about the technology in its sales pitches. The technology they sell does not exist. Decentralised trading is still incomplete research. It's vaporware

Admittedly hyperbolic, though the tech I was referring to was blockchains in general. Maybe you know something I don't, but I always thought the idea and core of blockchains to be pretty rad.

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#62

Post by vineyardmike »

ryan_lane wrote: post #59
vineyardmike wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While i vaguely agree, crypto/blockchain/whatever has one unique aspect that is "valuable": It creates a scarcity in an internet full of abundance. You can copy/paste a JPEG or MP3 a million times (hello piracy), but you can't own an NFT or coin you don't actually own. Sure, you can copy/paste the underlying JPEG, but thats not the same. There will only be 1 blockchain owner. This unique property of scarcity is a val…

Except that you can mint the NFT on an infinite number of chains, since the chains are also digitally created. Sure, maybe you can't own one on _that_ chain, but really, who gives a shit? In the end, this is a less interesting beany babies.

> but really, who gives a shit?

Who gives a shit about anything? Luxury goods have value from name only? Who cares about baseball cards or stamps? They're so easy to print on a inkjet that anyone can have any card they want?

This is just another example of "not made for you" collectors. Its scarce because the creator said so, and because its auditable without trust.

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#63

Post by vineyardmike »

space_rock wrote: post #58
vineyardmike wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While i vaguely agree, crypto/blockchain/whatever has one unique aspect that is "valuable": It creates a scarcity in an internet full of abundance. You can copy/paste a JPEG or MP3 a million times (hello piracy), but you can't own an NFT or coin you don't actually own. Sure, you can copy/paste the underlying JPEG, but thats not the same. There will only be 1 blockchain owner. This unique property of scarcity is a val…

Blockchain does not equal bitcoin which created scarce money that can't be inflated which has value Outside of money you don't need scarcity

> Blockchain does not equal bitcoin which created scarce money that can't be inflated which has value

Blockchains created scarcity. Not bitcoin. Bitcoin uses a blockchain to enforce its particular scarcity. Blockchains enable auditable history, meaning that we can have "only one" true owner (per chain) and one true chain - that's good for money, yes.

> Outside of money you don't need scarcity

Yet people seem to love it. I personally have no interest in NFTs but I understand that people like collecting, and its a way to collect that's verifiably true (presumably, it'd be humorous to find the exchanges were just CRUD app with sql ledgers).

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#64

Post by space_rock »

vineyardmike wrote: post #63
space_rock wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain does not equal bitcoin which created scarce money that can't be inflated which has value Outside of money you don't need scarcity

> Blockchain does not equal bitcoin which created scarce money that can't be inflated which has value Blockchains created scarcity. Not bitcoin. Bitcoin uses a blockchain to enforce its particular scarcity. Blockchains enable auditable history, meaning that we can have "only one" true owner (per chain) and one true chain - that's good for money, yes. > Outside of money you don't need scarcity Yet people seem to love…

Blockchain is not the same as a blockchain. Blockchain is a hashed data structure from bitcoin. While "blockchain technology" is used in completely different context. The two and not related technically

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#66

Post by npteljes »

Animats wrote: post #13

Not clear whether this is even illegal, though. As long as they refer to existing objects, they're not securities, and since they're all different, they're not commodities. So they escape both SEC and CFTC regulation in the US. (The UK's Financial Conduct Authority, though...) That's the whole point of NFTs. In 2019-2020, the SEC cracked down on Initial Coin Offerings. They grandfathered in the early coins, and shut…

>Not clear whether this is even illegal, though.

I think it's not, and I wager this is what's attractive about crypto for these people. All the old tricks are new again, because crypto kinda works like how currencies, exchanges etc work, but the regulation is few and far between yet.

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#67

Post by skinnyasianboi »

qeternity wrote: post #9

The entire crypto world is like this. MtGox pumping and wash trading with Willy bot. Bitmex trading against and liquidating customers. Coinbase hiring Litecoin creator Charlie Lee and having him frequently wash trading 99% of LTC volume. Each of these has been _the_ preeminent exchange at some point in time, just as OpenSea is for NFT. FTX was born from one of if not the largest crypto trader/market maker, and one of…

The entire crypto world is not like this. Crypto is not all about making money.

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#68

Post by aforwardslash »

skinnyasianboi wrote: post #67
qeternity wrote: post #9

The entire crypto world is like this. MtGox pumping and wash trading with Willy bot. Bitmex trading against and liquidating customers. Coinbase hiring Litecoin creator Charlie Lee and having him frequently wash trading 99% of LTC volume. Each of these has been _the_ preeminent exchange at some point in time, just as OpenSea is for NFT. FTX was born from one of if not the largest crypto trader/market maker, and one of…

The entire crypto world is not like this. Crypto is not all about making money.

citation needed :)

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#69

Post by geofft »

thebean11 wrote: post #51
rednerrus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your value prop has to outweigh the potential negatives or there is no value prop. What OP is saying is that you can't have unregulated markets in this space the incentives to cheat are too great.

Sure, and I'm not making an argument against regulation. My point is that there is nothing inherent in cryptocurrency to create these forms of fraud except the lack of regulation, otherwise the same fraud would exist in traditional markets.

But that point doesn't support the message you're trying to say.

Suppose I were to say "Elbonia is a dangerous lawless country, where corruption abounds and you're not safe on the streets," and you were to respond by saying "There's nothing inherent to Elbonia to create those conditions except the lack of laws against corruption or mugging. And corruption and mugging happen in the US, too, and you'd see more of it if there weren't any laws against it. There's nothing about the Elbonians as a people that makes them more inclined to crime."

I would respond by saying "Thank you for proving my point that Elbonia is a dangerous place."

Re: OpenSea product chief accused of flipping NFTs with insider information

#70

Post by aforwardslash »

space_rock wrote: post #64
vineyardmike wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blockchain does not equal bitcoin which created scarce money that can't be inflated which has value Blockchains created scarcity. Not bitcoin. Bitcoin uses a blockchain to enforce its particular scarcity. Blockchains enable auditable history, meaning that we can have "only one" true owner (per chain) and one true chain - that's good for money, yes. > Outside of money you don't need scarcity Yet people seem to love…

Blockchain is not the same as a blockchain. Blockchain is a hashed data structure from bitcoin. While "blockchain technology" is used in completely different context. The two and not related technically

But in the end, they are the same. The major difference between a merkle tree (or patricia trie or whatever is implemented in x or y) and "blockchain technology" is the distributed consensus algorithm. Blockchain - by your own definition, is "blockchain", because its a hashed data structure with a distributed consensus algorithm. Now, of course I'm splitting hairs; and the reason for it is that merkle trees (or hashed variants) aren't groundbreaking or new - they've been around for decades. What is somewhat interesting is the proposition of a distributed structure with the same properties. The groundbreaking innovation from "blockchain technology" stops there.
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