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Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

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Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#61

Regardless of where you stand with this policy, you gotta give it some Kudos: It's a very efficient way to cleanse your entire bureaucracy of doubters. I can't think of another example where a democratic republic, which by definition includes a spectrum of opinions, has its whole bureaucratic hierarchy re-aligned with the ruling party's platform. Maybe this is due to the fact, that this is inherently undemocratic?

it's not about cleansing doubters, but rather political opposition. and it's never been about effective pandemic mitigation from either major party. it's entirely about flexing and coalescing power.

no matter what your political affiliation might be[0], we should always oppose such naked political power-grubbing.

[0]: note that i'd strongly argue against having one, not just as a matter of principle, but simply to make politicians really (rather than superficially, as it now is) work for our collective and individual support.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#62

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

> What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? Somebody who has already had covid. They've already taken on risk - why expose themselves to more? Your argument of people acting rational breaks down in a lot of cases. Plenty of people have self destructive behaviors (many with externalities that affect others) that we are ok with.

What risk? You literally expose yourself to more risk driving to work than with getting any vaccine.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#63

Regardless of where you stand with this policy, you gotta give it some Kudos: It's a very efficient way to cleanse your entire bureaucracy of doubters. I can't think of another example where a democratic republic, which by definition includes a spectrum of opinions, has its whole bureaucratic hierarchy re-aligned with the ruling party's platform. Maybe this is due to the fact, that this is inherently undemocratic?

In Texas to be a public employee you must certify that you will not boycott Israel. This is an actual political position that’s disallowed.

Under Biden’s change (correct me if I’m wrong), I can believe whatever I want about vaccines and say anything (so: have a political position)… as long as I get vaccinated (this is not a political position).

Not to mention that both ruling parties at the top are urging all to get vaccinated.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Truly held" false belief is still false, and no justification for undermining public health, or being a parasite on other's contributions to it. As the MAGA fascist Q-cultists are so fond of chanting, f--k their feelings.

How is it "undermining public health" to refuse vaccines which don't work against transmission?

Reduced transmission because of the vaccine is not a binary

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incorrect, natural immunity will last many years. Your antibody levels do go down but your body remembers how to make more. Vaccine immunity does seem to need booster shots.

P.1 (aka Gamma) and B.1.617.2 (aka Delta) have already been proven to reinfect those previously infected by COVID19 at alarming rates 180-days after they've recovered. Look: this shouldn't be a surprise. Your body only has 6 months of natural immunity to the flu. Some viruses (Flu, COVID19, etc. etc.) just don't have long-lasting immunity from. We all were hoping for the best, but the numbers are in and they're not v…

The Flu isn't one strain. It's many highly mutative strains, kinda different from the handful of stable strains of covid.

That is all FUD. Natural immunity does fine, just like the vaccine you may be reinfected but the effects will be severely diminished.

Look, this shouldn't be a surprise. Evolution is a bit better at this stuff than man, it's been doing it longer.

I'm all for people taking boosters if they want to for some reason, but don't push false information.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#66
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's not forget that people with natural antibodies are being fired from their private sector jobs too. We seem to be focused on measuring output rather than outcomes. Other countries are giving recovered people the same status as the vaccinated since they have the antibodies. But I guess that makes too much sense...

This is just a talking point coming from people who don't want to get the vaccination. Those people who don't want to get the vaccination largely exist because of misinformation, not because of any real risk (read: very very very very minimal risk) that comes with taking the Covid vaccine. Everyone (who can) should take the covid vaccine, regardless of their antibody status.

Can you explain why a "talking point" immediately invalidates something?

>A talking point, often used in the plural, is a pre-established message or formula used in the field of political communication, sales and commercial or advertising communication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_point

Let me ask you this: is "Everyone (who can) should take the vaccine" a message that medical organizations are communicating with minimal variance?

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.1 (aka Gamma) and B.1.617.2 (aka Delta) have already been proven to reinfect those previously infected by COVID19 at alarming rates 180-days after they've recovered. Look: this shouldn't be a surprise. Your body only has 6 months of natural immunity to the flu. Some viruses (Flu, COVID19, etc. etc.) just don't have long-lasting immunity from. We all were hoping for the best, but the numbers are in and they're not v…

The Flu isn't one strain. It's many highly mutative strains, kinda different from the handful of stable strains of covid. That is all FUD. Natural immunity does fine, just like the vaccine you may be reinfected but the effects will be severely diminished. Look, this shouldn't be a surprise. Evolution is a bit better at this stuff than man, it's been doing it longer. I'm all for people taking boosters if they want to…

> That is all FUD. Natural immunity does fine, just like the vaccine you may be reinfected but the effects will be severely diminished.

Why did Manaus, Brazil run out of hospital space in a 2nd surge? Despite initial infection rates of ~75%ish ?

Why was this effect then replicated in a 2nd Brazilian city of Araraquara city by a different research team? (Aka: a "2nd wave" of COVID19, despite a highly infected population?)

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#68

Good. There is no better use of state power than ensuring public health. Supreme Court resolved this in 1905 w/r/t smallpox.

The smallpox vaccine worked (works) much better than the covid vaccine. I don't think this is an honest comparison.

Fyi, the smallpox vaccine isn't as effective as the covid one...

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#69
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural immunity doesn’t only last 6 months. Where did you get that? I’m coming out of my second COVID infection now. Long story short, I was in the local hospital and the fact that this was my second infection caused a really big hubbub in the COVID ward and a nurse told me I was the first reinfection she has seen.

> Natural immunity doesn’t only last 6 months. Where did you get that? https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/delta-raises-covid... You got 180 days before natural immunity wanes and Delta poses a risk of reinfection.

That's looking at relative risk not overall. It's not saying you lose immunity after 180 days.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#70

Good. There is no better use of state power than ensuring public health. Supreme Court resolved this in 1905 w/r/t smallpox.

The smallpox vaccine worked (works) much better than the covid vaccine. I don't think this is an honest comparison.

The COVID vaccine is effective at preventing mass ICU occupancy. The smallpox vaccine is exceptionally effective when compared to other vaccines. Most other vaccines require 3-4 applications for reasonable immunity; same as COVID.
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