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How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

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Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#61

Post by inyorgroove »

pacifika wrote: post #56
inyorgroove wrote: post #5

While there do exist several alternatives to Docker Desktop, I am a fan of multipass. Something I don't see anyone talking about, the host to guest volume mounting performance can't be beat. The alternatives can't hold a candle to Docker Desktop's solution. I need this volume mounting to get development code changes into the container in a reasonable time and the alternative performance feels like running on a standa…

Is it possible to setup a mount from within a cloud init?

Yes, I've got the mount with multipass working no problem. That isn't the issue, the issue is it takes a ruby app 5x longer to boot using the sshfs based mounting vs the gRPC FUSE system Docker bundles with Docker Desktop.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#62

Post by studmuffin650 »

mroche wrote: post #47
acdha wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually work for you? I tried it and networking was broken out of the box – it couldn’t even pull a container image. I didn’t have time to spend digging into it, however, and would not rule out that being an artifact of our VPN.

Networking is working just fine over here; I rebuilt the machine to be using the latest (Sept 4) FCOS stream, but it was fine on the previous version (Aug 21) as well. Are you using short names to pull your images, i.e. 'requarks/wiki:latest' rather than the full path 'docker.io/requarks/wiki:latest'? (Note: official images in Docker Hub are under the 'library/' namespace, e.g. 'library/fedora') Other networking issu…

One issue still apparently is that it can’t mount volumes. Though I haven’t had to do that yet. When you attempt to mount a volume it will attempt to do it from within the virtual machine not your machine.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#63

Post by yunohn »

Spivak wrote: post #22
suchar wrote: post #16

Is there any practical benefit of Podman over Docker on a Mac? Virtual machine is still needed, so any performance issues are likely to persist (well, maybe Docker for Mac is a bit more buggy, but we can manually setup Docker instead of Podman in a similar way). Also, I think we are losing here access to the Docker socket on the host (inside the virtual machine it can be emulated using docker-podman).

Not having to pay Docker Inc to use it is the big advantage along with the security that comes with a solution that isn’t the meal ticket of the company that makes it so it will likely live on community supported for a long time.

> Not having to pay Docker Inc to use it is the big advantage

It’s mind boggling to me how much HN refuses to pay (only for company licensing) for the innovation that is Docker, and would rather find alternatives to the tooling around it.

> solution that isn’t the meal ticket of the company

Usually I’ve seen arguments the other way around - X will do a good job /because/ it’s their core offering.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#64

Post by q-rews »

lugged wrote: post #37
laurencerowe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same frustrations until the other day I saw a tip to enable 'Use the new Virtualization framework' under Preferences -> Experimental Features. Since then Docker's background CPU usage has dropped to 1% and I no longer bother stopping it when I'm not using it.

Wow, Mac users put up with some bullshit to avoid configuration and have things "just [sometimes, unless you're holding it wrong] work"

I'm happy your platform of choice has no bugs nor quirks. Could you let us know which one it is? We can probably help you find the bullshit you put up with that has become second nature.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#65

Post by spockz »

deathanatos wrote: post #36

This feels like the whole industry is now all going through the same motions… I tried podman; two hurdles I haven't figured out: 1/ sending the context is incredibly slow on podman, compared to Docker+Buildkit. It's definitely trying to send literally the entire context, like Docker without Buildkit does, but even more slowly… 2/ private registry auth. Haven't really tried too hard, but it's not just "a drop in repla…

You can use `az acr login --name --expose-token` to get the token and pass it to the pod man login.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#66

Post by solarkraft »

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #58
jeffparsons wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with making this work, IIRC, is that Docker Compose doesn't actually "compose" Docker commands, but instead _re-implements_ a bunch of functionality itself through its Python libraries. So you'd actually need to bring your own CLI-compatible Docker Compose implementation for Podman rather than just making your Docker replacement compatible.

In addition to the sibling comment (which mentions that you can use the original docker-compose) such a CLI-compatible reimplementation also exists [0]. It's not always a 100% drop-in replacement, but gets you pretty far in my experience. [0] https://github.com/containers/podman-compose

Anecdotally I can say that I ran into issues with fairly simple files (2 years ago). I’m going to try out the alternatives before coming back to this.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#67

Post by solarkraft »

laurencerowe wrote: post #35
tjscott wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Docker daemon (likely the HyperKit VM) on the Mac has a tendency to burn CPU cycles, even when there are no containers running. It's pretty common for it to sit at 10-20% of a core all day, and sometimes gets pegged at 100% until you quit. There are countless closed issues in the GitHub issue tracker [1] for similar issues, but the symptoms don't seem to go away for me or many of my colleagues. It's been a pretty…

I had the same frustrations until the other day I saw a tip to enable 'Use the new Virtualization framework' under Preferences -> Experimental Features. Since then Docker's background CPU usage has dropped to 1% and I no longer bother stopping it when I'm not using it.

My hopes for this were high, but it just makes my containers crash (until then networking works and it may be faster) on M1/Monterey.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#68

Post by suction »

yunohn wrote: post #63
Spivak wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having to pay Docker Inc to use it is the big advantage along with the security that comes with a solution that isn’t the meal ticket of the company that makes it so it will likely live on community supported for a long time.

> Not having to pay Docker Inc to use it is the big advantage It’s mind boggling to me how much HN refuses to pay (only for company licensing) for the innovation that is Docker, and would rather find alternatives to the tooling around it. > solution that isn’t the meal ticket of the company Usually I’ve seen arguments the other way around - X will do a good job /because/ it’s their core offering.

When software companies switch to subscription-only models (see 1Password) you better not be invested in the software too much or you'll be at their price gouging mercy.

I'll happily pay for software but I won't support subscription-based models, ever.

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#69

Post by yunohn »

suction wrote: post #68
yunohn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not having to pay Docker Inc to use it is the big advantage It’s mind boggling to me how much HN refuses to pay (only for company licensing) for the innovation that is Docker, and would rather find alternatives to the tooling around it. > solution that isn’t the meal ticket of the company Usually I’ve seen arguments the other way around - X will do a good job /because/ it’s their core offering.

When software companies switch to subscription-only models (see 1Password) you better not be invested in the software too much or you'll be at their price gouging mercy. I'll happily pay for software but I won't support subscription-based models, ever.

You’re conflating consumer and corporate purchasing. By and far, companies prefer subscription based pricing that comes with ongoing support. Consumers also want support and updates, but have an irrational desire to not pay the company/people that provide it…

Re: How to Replace Docker with Podman on a Mac

#70

Post by laurencerowe »

solarkraft wrote: post #67
laurencerowe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same frustrations until the other day I saw a tip to enable 'Use the new Virtualization framework' under Preferences -> Experimental Features. Since then Docker's background CPU usage has dropped to 1% and I no longer bother stopping it when I'm not using it.

My hopes for this were high, but it just makes my containers crash (until then networking works and it may be faster) on M1/Monterey.

That’s probably why it’s still marked experimental! Works well for me on an M1 Mac running Debian/Ubuntu Arm containers.
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