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Code Interviews

alaiacano.github.io

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Re: Code Interviews

#61

Post by b20000 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #12
a_square_peg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Senior engineers are expected to have different level of skills - project management, leadership, and ability to identify problems that matter, rather than blinding solving problems that are given to them. You're also not going to be able to test their ability to learn by giving tests. I'm sure most of us would fail high-school trigonometry (or spelling and grammar for that matter) if given one.

> I'm sure most of us would fail high-school trigonometry (or spelling and grammar for that matter) if given one. Not if we had a few weeks of prep time.

you mean 3 months and then going through 30 cycles of 10 hours each?

Re: Code Interviews

#62

Post by b20000 »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #23
yodsanklai wrote: post #6

> a decent evaluation of junior engineers without industry experience, but it’s a common complaint among senior engineers that they have to study material that they haven’t used in years to get a job where they won’t use it. Counterpoint: some engineers with industry experience may have been working on very specific tech that doesn't readily translate to a new position. Actually, I'm sure some companies wouldn't even…

I think it's worthwhile looking at what you're going to accomplish out of an interview. For systems design type stuff, I think it's reasonable to always ask, since it's useful to know how someone approaches problems, and it's not necessarily a given that someone would have needed to deal with architectural / design questions regardless of seniority level. If you're hiring for a senior position though, and the purpose…

I went through several cycles and did excellent on the SD interviews because of my experience. But none of that stuff mattered, it was all about answering some trick coding questions that were irrelevant for the job. So it seems that all the important stuff like experience is much less important than leetcode.

Re: Code Interviews

#63

Post by b20000 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #27
ryanbrunner wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worthwhile looking at what you're going to accomplish out of an interview. For systems design type stuff, I think it's reasonable to always ask, since it's useful to know how someone approaches problems, and it's not necessarily a given that someone would have needed to deal with architectural / design questions regardless of seniority level. If you're hiring for a senior position though, and the purpose…

> you should be able to get enough evidence from their resume / github / references The problem is when you get 1000s of such resumes, but only a few positions to fill. Also, not everybody has time to spent on github projects. It can be even more time consuming to work on personal projects than brushing up your algorithmic skills. Not saying these interviews are perfect, but I do believe that they are a good solution…

if I spend 3 months full time building a product, I have something of value, guaranteed. If I spend 3 months on interview prep, then I still have to start going through the cycles, and it will take another 3 months before I might have a job. No guarantees. Anyone can build something in a month, so the idea you have no time to build a side project is just BS. Especially if you can spend months grinding leetcode.

Re: Code Interviews

#64

Post by b20000 »

ozim wrote: post #54
b20000 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that’s too bad then. anyone can work on a simple project. how about a simple CRUD app for kitchen recipes?

It is like a cover letter, if you will do half-arsed one it will work against you. It has to be a good CRUD kitchen recipe app if you want to show it off.

A cover letter won't tell you whether the candidate can get anything done. A small coding project will.

Re: Code Interviews

#65

Post by b20000 »

Zababa wrote: post #57
b20000 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so this basically means people assume you are lying and a fraud, which is another problem that is not talked about enough - it should not be assumed that you are like that, until proven otherwise.

Why? People lie a lot about their skills. The fizzbuzz test was invented a first to filter candidates that said they knew how to code but didn't, and it was very effective at it.

Being able to write software does not automatically imply you are able to write software while on a video call, and while explaining what you are doing constantly.

Re: Code Interviews

#66

Post by goodrubyist »

bastawhiz wrote: post #42
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14

I won't bother with coding interviews. I consider them to be "hazing rituals"; not actual qualification assessment. I am very, very fortunate, in that I don't have to deal with them. I am not looking for work, and plan to never look for work, ever again. I have a giant portfolio[0]. It has links to 40 or so repos, with tens of thousands of lines of code, spanning decades. Just about every project can be cloned, built…

On the flip side, an interview where you're doing relevant work with another engineer is a way to evaluate whether you're a decent person to work with. I've hard-passed on candidates with immaculate resumes and huge open source portfolios because they were rude and insufferable. When you're hiring, you're building a team, you're not hiring individuals who work in isolation. In a previous life, I was forced to work un…

But, how are you qualified to make that determination (as in whether a person is decent enough to work with)? Isn't it likely that you either get a skewed impression of this from an interview or that you are biased yourself? The person you reject for lacking decency could be your interviewer in another situation, and reject you for the same reason.

* not trying to imply that there is no objective way to define/measure decency

Re: Code Interviews

#67

Post by goodrubyist »

b20000 wrote: post #37
lumost wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an experienced engineer Apple I'm sure that you've noticed a few trends such as. 1) There are those who are unfamiliar with core comp sci concepts, and are still very productive in many kinds of engineering work. 2) It can be difficult for a team that codes frequently and sometimes does need to deal with algorithms and other items to onboard a new team member who's not very good at the act of coding or very famili…

1) that is extremely unlikely for any engineer who has produced open source projects or commercial products succesfully 2) again, see 1) 3) they don’t need to remember everything about all algorithms and data structures, just like lawyers don’t remember all details about the law either. that is what books and the internet are for. you just need to know what exists and where to find it, and should have implemented som…

I also think it's broken in the way you describe, but also find it amazing that it can remain broken for so long given the costs associated with it.

Re: Code Interviews

#68

Post by bastawhiz »

goodrubyist wrote: post #66
bastawhiz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, an interview where you're doing relevant work with another engineer is a way to evaluate whether you're a decent person to work with. I've hard-passed on candidates with immaculate resumes and huge open source portfolios because they were rude and insufferable. When you're hiring, you're building a team, you're not hiring individuals who work in isolation. In a previous life, I was forced to work un…

But, how are you qualified to make that determination (as in whether a person is decent enough to work with)? Isn't it likely that you either get a skewed impression of this from an interview or that you are biased yourself? The person you reject for lacking decency could be your interviewer in another situation, and reject you for the same reason. * not trying to imply that there is no objective way to define/measur…

There's no objective measure of decency. I'm qualified to offer my subjective input while evaluating the candidate because I'll be on the team that has to work with them.

And frankly, I'll happily take the L if the candidate rejects me as the interviewer at another position. I have no right to assert that I'm the best possible candidate for their role because the job at hand isn't strictly about quantitatively measured qualifications. Though, if I rejected a candidate for being unpleasant, chances are I'll withdraw my application upon seeing they're and interviewer. Why would I change my mind about working with that person?

Re: Code Interviews

#69

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

goodrubyist wrote: post #67
b20000 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) that is extremely unlikely for any engineer who has produced open source projects or commercial products succesfully 2) again, see 1) 3) they don’t need to remember everything about all algorithms and data structures, just like lawyers don’t remember all details about the law either. that is what books and the internet are for. you just need to know what exists and where to find it, and should have implemented som…

I also think it's broken in the way you describe, but also find it amazing that it can remain broken for so long given the costs associated with it.

> find it amazing that it can remain broken for so long given the costs associated with it.

For the same reason that hazing has lasted as long as it has.

"I got hazed, so you will, too!"

Re: Code Interviews

#70

Post by ___luigi »

_skhan_ wrote: post #32
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14

I won't bother with coding interviews. I consider them to be "hazing rituals"; not actual qualification assessment. I am very, very fortunate, in that I don't have to deal with them. I am not looking for work, and plan to never look for work, ever again. I have a giant portfolio[0]. It has links to 40 or so repos, with tens of thousands of lines of code, spanning decades. Just about every project can be cloned, built…

You are proving exactly why we need a standardized way to judge whether a candidate is hirable. All the candidates I see have almost zero history of contributing to OSS or maintaining side projects. Their work history usually consists of some run of the mill experience. I have to rely on that and absolutely do not expect them to have a green GitHub. I would hate for that to become the norm. That is why we need to asc…

> .. I see have almost zero history of contributing to OSS or maintaining side projects.

Not sure about US, but in EU, the contract from employers doesn't allow you to contribute code without permission (e.g. contributing to OSS, working on side projects, etc), it's very very rare to find an exception.

You can check this discussion few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27843198

> I have to rely on that ..

By doing this, you are not considering employees who are doing nothing wrong, but follow the rules and respect the contract terms.

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