Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin • Hacker News Board

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#61

Post by beaner » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

glogla wrote: post #27

aurizon wrote: post #3

This is a byproduct of the arcane US medical system. The rich see a doctor and get drugs and are warned off ivermectin. The poor see doctors with meters attached, insert $$, get advice, follow advice to pharmacy = another meter, insert $$. Even an ambulance can cost $1000. In Rest of world the state pays health, so the first doctor visit kill the ivermectin myth and they get the proper medication at a fraction of the…

We have universal national healthcare here, and people still take ivermectin because (someone on) Facebook told them to. Before that it was Hydroxychloroquine including one major newspaper running articles on how it helps with COVID (which not only it doesn't but it is illegal to run advertisements on pharmaceuticals around here). So I dunno if US medical system has much to do with it. It seems more like someone weap…

Why do you mention hydroxychloroquine as if it were snake oil? At least some hospitals here administered it as part of their covid routine, ostensibly because they believed it helped according to the science.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#62

Post by cultofmetatron » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #33

cultofmetatron wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats a really weird way of saying "hasn't proven to be effective"

Also hasn’t been proven to be not effective. Half empty or half full?

> hasn’t been proven to be not effective.

yes but thats grammatically obtuse so as to avoid conveying clear information. its very easy for someone reading that to come away with the wrong info due to the redundant negation.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#63

Post by watwut » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

beaner wrote: post #50

awnird wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are literally buying horse paste and eating it.

I don't think anyone's saying they shouldn't stop. That's not the point the person you're replying to is making.

That person is claiming issue is not about horse version, but about human version. He implies media spread false information when they talk about the issue.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#64

Post by Lammy » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

awnird wrote: post #41

gorwell wrote: post #15

Conflating veterinary horse paste ivermectin with the human version of ivermectin is one of the most brazen lies I've ever seen from the American media, who is actively pushing pharmaceutical industry propaganda. Just one of many examples this week: "Joe Rogan has told his Instagram followers he has been taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug formulated for use in cows and horses, to help fight the coronaviru…

People are literally buying horse paste and eating it.

It's a privileged view to see this as a new phenomenon. People without financial means to access the human medical system have been using things like fish antibiotics for years: https://fishmoxfishflex.com/collections/fish-antibiotics

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#65

Post by joemazerino » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #35

gorwell wrote: post #15

Conflating veterinary horse paste ivermectin with the human version of ivermectin is one of the most brazen lies I've ever seen from the American media, who is actively pushing pharmaceutical industry propaganda. Just one of many examples this week: "Joe Rogan has told his Instagram followers he has been taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug formulated for use in cows and horses, to help fight the coronaviru…

Ivmmeta is pseudoscientific. It should not be taken seriously by anyone. See a short analysis e.g. at https://mobile.twitter.com/gidmk/status/1422044335076306947 .

Calling an established anti-viral medicine "pseudoscientific" is just team politics.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#66

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

gorwell wrote: post #15

Conflating veterinary horse paste ivermectin with the human version of ivermectin is one of the most brazen lies I've ever seen from the American media, who is actively pushing pharmaceutical industry propaganda. Just one of many examples this week: "Joe Rogan has told his Instagram followers he has been taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug formulated for use in cows and horses, to help fight the coronaviru…

[deleted]

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#67

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #33

cultofmetatron wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats a really weird way of saying "hasn't proven to be effective"

Also hasn’t been proven to be not effective. Half empty or half full?

[deleted]

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#68

Post by godsfshrmn » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

Ansil849 wrote: post #46

fallingknife wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that our medical system is fucked, but what exactly are you referring to here? The process seems the same from when I was poor and now that I'm rich. Make appointment -> pay money -> see doctor -> get prescription -> go to pharmacy -> pay money -> get drugs. And the advice I get from doctors doesn't seem to be any better now. It's not like doctors that poor people see are intentionally giving bad medical advi…

I think the point was that those who can afford it can see better doctors, particularly those who are less likely to be swayed by pharmaceutical company incentives. Case in point would be, when you were poor did you go to the same doctor in the same neighborhood now that you are rich? Kind of like those who can afford them can receive better lawyers than overworked public defenders.

As a doctor, someone tell me where I can sign up for some of these pharmaceutical incentives. I guess I am out of the loop as after a decade of practice, no one has come knocking

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#69

Post by 8eye » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #14

aurizon wrote: post #3

This is a byproduct of the arcane US medical system. The rich see a doctor and get drugs and are warned off ivermectin. The poor see doctors with meters attached, insert $$, get advice, follow advice to pharmacy = another meter, insert $$. Even an ambulance can cost $1000. In Rest of world the state pays health, so the first doctor visit kill the ivermectin myth and they get the proper medication at a fraction of the…

I agree that our medical system is fucked, but what exactly are you referring to here? The process seems the same from when I was poor and now that I'm rich. Make appointment -> pay money -> see doctor -> get prescription -> go to pharmacy -> pay money -> get drugs. And the advice I get from doctors doesn't seem to be any better now. It's not like doctors that poor people see are intentionally giving bad medical advi…

there’s actually a different procedure if you are on government issue it’s the governments bill, so if you get injured they won’t suggest the same care right away that they would to someone who had better insurance. you do not think this is happening but my mother and sister years and years ago did medical transcription (before speech to text was a big thing) and the notes from the doctors were insanely prejudice towards people who did that dress well, or who used government insurance. today’s standards talking how they talked would get anyone fired, but that attitude is still there with certain doctors. so yeah i still believe care is withheld due to insurance. it might not be done out of mistreatment of the patient but purely procedural, like an mri cost more than an x-ray, so they will suggest the x-ray first and never bring up an mri until the patient insists on it, that’s the type of low key care difference.

there has not been any studies on this to my knowledge but i’ve experienced it before with friends who do not work jobs that provide healthcare options.

i am not sure if it is done consciously or not, a lot of judgements are subconscious and that will affect outcome.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#70

Post by swang » Sat, Sep 04, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

gorwell wrote: post #15

Conflating veterinary horse paste ivermectin with the human version of ivermectin is one of the most brazen lies I've ever seen from the American media, who is actively pushing pharmaceutical industry propaganda. Just one of many examples this week: "Joe Rogan has told his Instagram followers he has been taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug formulated for use in cows and horses, to help fight the coronaviru…

they are not conflating it. they literally describe the difference in the article you posted.

> Dr. David Boulware of the University of Minnesota says the drug’s side effects are mild at two or even three times the usual human dose. But formulations for farm animals might contain 1,000 times what’s safe for humans.

People need a prescription for Ivermectin (human dosage) but since they can't do that. They're taking the horse paste version without understanding the difference or knowing that its a much higher concentration..

And what are you talking about with "pharmaceutical industry propaganda?" Ivermectin is literally owned by Merck, who has said not to take it. The pharmaceutical industry would be the ones actively profiting of Ivermectin.