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Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

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Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#61

Post by awsthro00945 »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #40
Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

Speaking as someone with IBS, it took a long time to get a definitive "IBS" diagnosis from my doctor. IBS is a process of elimination diagnosis. They'll confirm it's not any number of other things, and only after definitively ruling out Crohn's disease and other more serious conditions will they settle on IBS (which I took from my doctor to mean "We don't know.") Now for treatment purposes, they were giving me medica…

I don't know exactly what Amazon asked for in this case, but any time for me in the past at either school, work, or otherwise, when "doctor's note" is mentioned, they aren't asking for a definitive diagnosis. In fact, I've never even seen a doctor's note that specifically said "[name] has influenza/rhinovirus/UTI". It's always been sufficient for the note to just say something like "I am a doctor and [name] was seen by me for digestive tract issues, please accommodate them." I can't imagine that wouldn't have sufficed here, too.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#62

Post by klyrs »

maxk42 wrote: post #22
geofft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to urgent care to get a routine doctor's note for a non-urgent situation wouldn't be covered by insurance, would it?

Walk-in clinics are affordable and frequently faster than urgent care.

IBS is a diagnosis of last resort. You don't get that from a walk-in clinic, you get that from a months- or years-long quest to eliminate every possible cause, before your doctor throws up their hands and calls it IBS.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#63

Post by srswtf123 »

b9a2cab5 wrote: post #57
mrmuagi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

It sounds like you've never worked with people who intentionally "use the bathroom" to not work. If you step out of your white collar tech bubble for a moment you'd realize giving _two months_ to give a doctor's note before reprimanding this woman is perfectly reasonable. Blue collar work / retail is not like tech where your output is not necessarily a function of hours worked. In tech you can go to the bathroom 8 ho…

So what you’re saying is: it’s reasonable to dehumanize blue collar workers because they might be lazy?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#64

Post by threatofrain »

risedotmoe wrote: post #59
zuminator wrote: post #33

If the issue led to termination it's at least conceivable that it's a little more complicated than the staffer is letting on. If the person took six 5-minute breaks and got their tasks accomplished, no problem. But if they took 6 20-minute bathroom breaks, that's 2 hours out of a day in the bathroom, on a daily basis. That's an employee who's away from their workstation fully 1/4 of their day. Are they really able to…

As someone who’s dealt with this exact situation, someone with a “bowel issue” likely doesn’t take 5 minute poops unless they have diarrhea. 20 minutes is about normal when you’re constipated but have to poop 5 times a day. If you don’t go to the bathroom you’re in pain and unfocused until you poop and until you’re done pooping. What’s spent in those 20 minutes? Dreading people will say exactly what you just said whi…

Why does this not qualify for disability?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#65

Post by threatofrain »

mrmuagi wrote: post #34
Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

You can ask your doctor to simply be vague and affirm that you have a clinically significant problem which requires accommodation. There is no reason to get into the details, except with respect to the ways you're asking to be accommodated.

Similarly, if you were attending a public institution, it makes sense that if you're seeking special accommodation then you'd at least have to disclose how you want to be accommodated. It does not mean you have to disclose you have IBS.

What we might debate is whether 2 months is a reasonable timeframe to ask for a doctor to write a note, or whether 6 bathroom trips a day should be the threshold that a warehouse should care about.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#66

Post by TheCoelacanth »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #40
Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

Speaking as someone with IBS, it took a long time to get a definitive "IBS" diagnosis from my doctor. IBS is a process of elimination diagnosis. They'll confirm it's not any number of other things, and only after definitively ruling out Crohn's disease and other more serious conditions will they settle on IBS (which I took from my doctor to mean "We don't know.") Now for treatment purposes, they were giving me medica…

Getting an appointment with a gastroenterologist can also take a long time. I don't think I've ever been able to schedule an appointment with one less than three months out.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#67

Post by mrmuagi »

b9a2cab5 wrote: post #57
mrmuagi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

It sounds like you've never worked with people who intentionally "use the bathroom" to not work. If you step out of your white collar tech bubble for a moment you'd realize giving _two months_ to give a doctor's note before reprimanding this woman is perfectly reasonable. Blue collar work / retail is not like tech where your output is not necessarily a function of hours worked. In tech you can go to the bathroom 8 ho…

> It sounds like you've never worked with people who intentionally "use the bathroom" to not work. If you step out of your white collar tech bubble for a moment you'd realize giving _two months_ to give a doctor's note before reprimanding this woman is perfectly reasonable.

If it's perfectly reasonable, perhaps there's no need for a court case? Or maybe you could concede that there's more details to the story and it remains to be seen if Amazon was being perfectly reasonable. I think it's more the latter, and despite my biases due to the obvious negative press Amazon gets, it may not be the case. Let's be perfectly reasonable ourselves, I made assumptions that the manager was just trying to fire the lady because Amazon be Amazon. You are making assumptions that the worker is a freeloading grifter, and also this:

> If you step out of your white collar tech bubble for a moment you'd realize giving _two months_ to give a doctor's note before reprimanding this woman is perfectly reasonable.

I don't think it's productive to throw assumptions about my work history. I think it's laughable you are using this "you are privileged" argument I've seen time and time again used against to people supportive of Amazon's employment practices here, and swap the worker for the employer. I actually had to double take your stance, because I really had trouble with you assuming my personal work history, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are addressing the general audience having that viewpoint instead. I think you are bringing up a great point by the way, but I am no means in that "white collar tech bubble".

And hey, consider this, the fact you are typing on this forum right at this moment shows we both have a bubble of sorts, where we can type comments and yell at our monitors on a lazy sunday. Some people have to work, and I am pretty sure I'll still get deliveries by Amazon on Sunday.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#68

Post by rnd0 »

kennywinker wrote: post #4

Cue the amazon defenders with their “it’s not that bad amazon is better than working in a coal mine suck-it-up softie”. Humans are not AWS instances. We need bathroom breaks, conversations, time off when a family member dies, and high enough wages we can build our lives and care for the people in them. If your company is not doing that, then it is actively harming the people who make you money - and should be driven…

An amusing pattern is emerging with the comments in this post. People are getting downvoted for pointing taking the worker's side (pointing out you can't simply walk into a clinic to get a ibs note for instance), and people are getting upvoted for taking amazon's side.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#69

Post by mrmuagi »

threatofrain wrote: post #65
mrmuagi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

You can ask your doctor to simply be vague and affirm that you have a clinically significant problem which requires accommodation. There is no reason to get into the details, except with respect to the ways you're asking to be accommodated. Similarly, if you were attending a public institution, it makes sense that if you're seeking special accommodation then you'd at least have to disclose how you want to be accommod…

> You can ask your doctor to simply be vague and affirm that you have a clinically significant problem which requires accommodation.

That's a good point. I think the remaining obstacles left is perhaps getting that doctors note. I don't live in the tri-state area and have no idea how hard it would be in the current climate.

> What we might debate is whether 2 months is a reasonable timeframe to ask for a doctor to write a note, or whether 6 bathroom trips a day should be the threshold that a warehouse should care about.

Eh, true, so I guess we need more info. Were the bathroom trips long? What if they were pretty long and she actually suffered from IBS -- seems like her lawyers are just making an argument she is protected under disability laws? I am not sure then.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#70

Post by [deleted] »

zuminator wrote: post #33

If the issue led to termination it's at least conceivable that it's a little more complicated than the staffer is letting on. If the person took six 5-minute breaks and got their tasks accomplished, no problem. But if they took 6 20-minute bathroom breaks, that's 2 hours out of a day in the bathroom, on a daily basis. That's an employee who's away from their workstation fully 1/4 of their day. Are they really able to…

[deleted]
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