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Unifying iPadOS and macOS

screamingatmyscreen.com

61–70 of 217 posts

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drag and drop HW drivers, or similar, in a cloud IDE? I'm skeptical.

>Drag and drop HW drivers, or similar, in a cloud IDE? I'm skeptical. Perhaps you are thinking too "now". In the future why would you personally need hardware drivers? Any hardware that you subscribe to (ownership will be a thing of the past) would have factory-installed drivers constantly updated from the few reified "real" programmers that work for a few dozen mega-corporations. For that matter, I could imagine a f…

And "the few reified 'real' programmers that work for a few dozen mega-corporations" are organized in an union. Sounds like fun times!

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#62

I bought an iPad Pro recently, and I hate the fact that I can’t run any of my favorite macOS apps on it despite the fact that the hardware is more than capable. And no web browsers / browser extensions / PWAs? It feels like a toy. Very disappointing.

At least browser extensions will be a thing as of iOS 15.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have it backwards. MacOS is going to replace iOS. Docking is a good reason for that. With the advancements in Apples silicon, we’re seeing more and more features from iOS added to MacOS, but not the other way round. I would love a dockable iPhone, I’d pay a big premium for an M line iPhone that has the full MacOS in dock mode.

The money and power within Apple have all gone to iOS over the last ten years, and developer interest is now overwhelmingly in iOS. That alone will dictate the direction of travel.

iPhones are apples leading revenue maker, but it’s closely followed by their services. Absorbing iOS into MacOS makes the most sense, they can sell devices that are iOSish only and then sell the premium dockable iPhones with MacOS. It also will help developers focus on a unified platform without alienating them with an entirely new tool suite.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#64

It's not about the touch screen, the UI, the hardware or "casual" vs "professional" users, but simply about the ability to create(!) and combine small specialized tools into something that's bigger than the sum of its parts. The "walled garden app ecosystem" is exceptionally bad for this, and the UNIX shell is exceptionally good, but both are extremes. It's hard to imagine how a UNIX-like flexibility can be achieved…

Assuming enough apps expose functionality through it, Shortcuts is the bridge between walled garden apps and UNIX pipelines, and Apple made a very clever move in making Shortcuts how Siri discovers functionality.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just lazyness / QA problems at Apple that prevent high quality apps

No, it's more about the inherent limitations of touch-centric UIs, combined with limited multitasking (full-screen apps), and trying to hide the filesystem from the user.

The file system hasn’t been hidden for years. Unfortunately the app and components that interact with it are completely anemic, so it’s still a pain to work with.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#67
iOS is undeniably the one that would lead and determine how the future would be. In terms of money, iOS makes almost 5x more money than MacOS excluding all the services and wearables the iOS brings in as well. It makes lots of sense to continue invest heavily on iPadOS to attract more advanced users like devs.

iPad Pro M1 is the baby first step to start bringing in more MacOS compatible pieces to iPadOS. Eventually it would suck some or even most of the MacOS users into the iPadOS.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#68

It's not about the touch screen, the UI, the hardware or "casual" vs "professional" users, but simply about the ability to create(!) and combine small specialized tools into something that's bigger than the sum of its parts. The "walled garden app ecosystem" is exceptionally bad for this, and the UNIX shell is exceptionally good, but both are extremes. It's hard to imagine how a UNIX-like flexibility can be achieved…

I wholeheartedly agree; the app-centric model of today's desktop environments is the antithesis of the Smalltalk vision of composability. In an environment where everything is a live object, programmers can send messages to those objects. Thus, in the Smalltalk environment you end up with something even more powerful than Unix pipes and redirection.

Now, Smalltalk provides the infrastructure for composability, but Smalltalk by itself doesn't provide us the full-fledged desktop environment and applications that users have come to expect; they would have to be implemented in Smalltalk. But where things get interesting in a Smalltalk-implemented desktop environment is that the live object environment is still there, leading to interesting possibilities. Imagine being able to control a word processing program through scripts written outside the word processor, without the word processing program itself having to implement something like Visual Basic for Applications? Imagine being able to control a spreadsheet with Smalltalk methods on cells instead of having to learn the spreadsheet's language or having to learn Visual Basic for Applications? The possibilities become even more intriguing when objects can interact with each other in ways that are far more general than Unix pipes. This is the desktop environment I dream of using, the unification of the ease of use of GUIs and the flexibility and programmability similar to the Unix shell.

Oddly enough, in the mid-1990's Apple implemented a less-ambitious (but still very ambitious for its time) version of this vision known as OpenDoc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDoc). There are some wonderful videos at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFJdjk2rq4E (a three minute summary) and at https://youtu.be/2FSFvEIpm5o (a 50-minute demo). OpenDoc was released in 1996, if I recall correctly, and there were some applications written with OpenDoc, most notably the CyberDog web browser (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberdog). However, once Apple bought NeXT in late 1996, Apple committed itself to building its next-generation operating system on NeXT, which had its own collection of object-oriented APIs. The cancellation of OpenDoc led to this famous spat during WWDC 1997 when a disgruntled developer questioned Steve Jobs on Apple's decision to cancel OpenDoc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeqPrUmVz-o).

Why was OpenDoc cancelled? One can argue that OpenDoc's cancellation was due to Apple needing to have a tight focus during its very vulnerable period in 1997. The proof is in the pudding: mid-1990's Apple before the return of Steve Jobs was an unfocused beacon that was able to produce many interesting technological demos (the Dylan programming language, SK8, OpenDoc), but there was no single coherent vision. The Taligent and Copland projects, which strove to replace the classic Mac OS with then-modern underpinnings, were disasters. OpenDoc was just one out of the many, sometimes competing, visions that Apple had during this time. Steve Jobs was able to turn around Apple's fortunes by having Apple focus on one vision for the Mac.

However, another way of looking at the cancellation of OpenDoc is that its success would have completely upended the software industry. Instead of software vendors selling apps, software vendors would sell components, which users can integrate to create custom workflows. While I believe that this would have led to a lot of flexibility and user-empowerment, OpenDoc would have also been seriously challenged by major software vendors like Microsoft and Adobe, whose empires were built on selling large, proprietary software packages. They were not going to give up their moats without a fight.

Still, I dream of the modern realization of component-based software, and it's something I've been thinking a lot about for the past few years.

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money and power within Apple have all gone to iOS over the last ten years, and developer interest is now overwhelmingly in iOS. That alone will dictate the direction of travel.

iPhones are apples leading revenue maker, but it’s closely followed by their services. Absorbing iOS into MacOS makes the most sense, they can sell devices that are iOSish only and then sell the premium dockable iPhones with MacOS. It also will help developers focus on a unified platform without alienating them with an entirely new tool suite.

I think that’s the best argument. To point for many people is the services are so good. You text someone on your phone and it shows up on your desktop. Even though macOS doesn’t make as much money it makes iOS more valuable

Re: Unifying iPadOS and macOS

#70
Y’know Samsung’s DEX, where you plug a Samsung Android device into an HDMI output and the output is not a mirror of the phone’s mobile UI, but rather a full Android desktop UI?

There’s little reason that Apple couldn’t do the same thing with iPads, where the “desktop UI” is macOS. Unify the kernels/userlands, keep the “Desktop Environments” distinct, but ship them both on iPads, with the macOS DE just waiting around for you to plug your device into a monitor.

Apple are already training us for this with the new version of Continuity — there’s little difference between “control your Mac from your iPad” and “control the macOS DE container running on your iPad, from your iPad.”

The only real differences in interaction paradigm between Continuity and a DEX-like approach, now that I think of it, would be:

- a shared filesystem

- [possibly] moving iPad/Catalyst apps freely between screens, where they swap between being fullscreen on iPadOS and being windows on macOS

This would also be a (rather-charitable) explanation for why iPadOS has never done anything smart so far when plugged into an HDMI display. If they were planning to do this, they wouldn’t bother with half-steps like giving iPadOS apps multi-display support.

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