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China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

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Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#61

Post by jollybean »

bilbo0s wrote: post #6
cucumb3rrelish wrote: post #2

they really are keen on annoying investors aren't they. i wonder for how long tencent and the other conglomerates will obey these orders

i wonder for how long tencent and the other conglomerates will obey these orders Strange question with what I would consider to be an obvious answer. They will obey for as long as they want the profits they get from China's market of video game players for instance. Which strikes me as pretty much "forever". What company is gonna leave and give that kind of gift wrapped profit center to someone else voluntarily?

"What company is gonna leave and give that kind of gift wrapped profit center to someone else voluntarily? "

When it's no longer a gift.

These companies are sometimes high flying startups along the lines of US firms and they require access to capital.

If their valuations are clipped by an order of magnitude because of regulatory apparatus (i.e. can't list in the US and American investors have no appetite for Chinese exchanges), then this will be a problem for a lot of businesses.

TikTok is getting big in the US and the West where margins are a lot fatter, it could feasibly make more sense for Bytedance to jump ship and become an American-based company with a Chinese workforce. Obviously that's hugely speculative but just an example.

It's like any bit of regulation it has a bunch of externalities. Some may be pretty bad for the company. Maybe, maybe not.

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#62

Post by thombee »

itmayno wrote: post #15
SubiculumCode wrote: post #12

I have a fairly dim view of China's ethics and respect for human rights, and so tend to suspect the worst; however, the hyper-competition in China's production industries has led to product ecosystems rife with unsafe materials (e.g. lead), and other cut corners. Now that many Chinese are able to purchase the things they produce, I can imagine that safety regulations are starting to be demanded by the public, and tha…

USSR followed the same path when their citizens grumbled about liberalization. State owned enterprises are now seizing power from private companies and foreign entities. Pretty soon you are going to see replays of USSR SoE dominance such as lack of innovation, bread lines, inefficient operation, and corruption. It seems xi jing ping did not fully study the downfall of USSR after all.

Do you really think that the Chinese government have not studied the causes and effects of the ussr collapse enough? The other large communist nation who was also their neighbour? Or is this just some weird rhetoric you're using

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#63

Post by baybal2 »

tablespoon wrote: post #14
cucumb3rrelish wrote: post #2

they really are keen on annoying investors aren't they. i wonder for how long tencent and the other conglomerates will obey these orders

> they really are keen on annoying investors aren't they. i wonder for how long tencent and the other conglomerates will obey these orders They will obey as long as the state has power, which will be for the far foreseeable future. The Chinese government has been smart enhance its power by keeping its domestic businesses in a strictly subordinate position and creating an environment were foreign businesses cooperate…

> Apple has no "plan B," it's China all the way for them

I know many people who work, or worked for Apple on the hardware side.

I assure you, Apple has "plan B," and it been trying executing on it relentlessly for the last 2 years — just without any success.

Vietnam's total electronics industry output is like a single district in Dongguan. The supply chain is very, very immature there, despite it already towering above any other place in developing Asia, but China.

If what my buddies tell me of Apple's internal assesment of countries is correct, no other countries are even close to a 2nd place alternative on that, except for Taiwan, which is their "plan C" — a sure to work, but expensive option if everything else fails.

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#64

Post by eunos »

Lammy wrote: post #59
yorwba wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Internet+ supervision" doesn't refer to supervision of the internet, but using the internet to make supervisory agencies in general more efficient. E.g. this post by the Zhejiang Archives from 2019 http://www.zjda.gov.cn/art/2019/6/10/art_1378485_34553497.ht... mentions that employees no longer have to carry around documents and manually fill them in to do their work, but can use an app for that. The part you quoted…

Surely supervision/surveillance of a person covers all their Internet usage too, right? Google Translate makes it sound like this will just bring massive scale and automation to the types of surveillance and re-education that are already in place: “In accordance with the requirements of the State Council’s ‘Internet + Supervision’, Zhejiang has vigorously promoted the pilot work of a unified administrative law enforc…

You need to see their original Chinese documents and compared with documents that are talking about what @yorwba said and documents specific about surveillance. Chinese watching is hard.

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#65

Post by yorwba »

Lammy wrote: post #59
yorwba wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Internet+ supervision" doesn't refer to supervision of the internet, but using the internet to make supervisory agencies in general more efficient. E.g. this post by the Zhejiang Archives from 2019 http://www.zjda.gov.cn/art/2019/6/10/art_1378485_34553497.ht... mentions that employees no longer have to carry around documents and manually fill them in to do their work, but can use an app for that. The part you quoted…

Surely supervision/surveillance of a person covers all their Internet usage too, right? Google Translate makes it sound like this will just bring massive scale and automation to the types of surveillance and re-education that are already in place: “In accordance with the requirements of the State Council’s ‘Internet + Supervision’, Zhejiang has vigorously promoted the pilot work of a unified administrative law enforc…

You may read "law enforcement" and think "police", but it refers to all kinds of government actions intended to ensure that the law is being followed, e.g. requiring building permits or food safety inspections or whatever.

But yes, if someone is under surveillance, reducing paperwork will probably make that more efficient, too. It's just not the exclusive focus of this reform.

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#66

Post by raincom »

ep103 wrote: post #47
warning26 wrote: post #13

Translation: get ready for arbitrary enforcement of nebulous, ill-defined standards!

Selective enforcement is a feature, not a bug, of authoritarian systems

In what way is it different from prosecutorial discretion practiced in the West?

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#68

Post by Alupis »

cucumb3rrelish wrote: post #2

they really are keen on annoying investors aren't they. i wonder for how long tencent and the other conglomerates will obey these orders

If they can make Jack Ma disappear for months over some casual comments - I think executives at these conglomerates understand the message pretty clearly.

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#69

Post by emptysongglass »

Barrin92 wrote: post #60
warning26 wrote: post #13

Translation: get ready for arbitrary enforcement of nebulous, ill-defined standards!

explicit goal is actually the opposite and it's likely not just empty words. If you've done business in China as a foreigner over the last few years the court system in particular has actually become more reliable and noticeably quicker. It used to be way more arbitrary and chaotic about ten-ish years ago.

I want to say something glib here but straightfaced I will ask if you are referring to reliably improving the speed and efficiency of the courts' 99.965% [1] conviction rate because that's a number that makes some of my softwares vendors' SLAs look rickety in comparison to.

[1] https://www.chinajusticeobserver.com/a/what-is-the-convictio...

Re: China releases a five-year regulation blueprint for broader crackdown

#70

Post by eunos »

emptysongglass wrote: post #69
Barrin92 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

explicit goal is actually the opposite and it's likely not just empty words. If you've done business in China as a foreigner over the last few years the court system in particular has actually become more reliable and noticeably quicker. It used to be way more arbitrary and chaotic about ten-ish years ago.

I want to say something glib here but straightfaced I will ask if you are referring to reliably improving the speed and efficiency of the courts' 99.965% [1] conviction rate because that's a number that makes some of my softwares vendors' SLAs look rickety in comparison to. [1] https://www.chinajusticeobserver.com/a/what-is-the-convictio...

No guilty plea (More than 97 percent of federal criminal convictions, 95 for state) and prosecutor being selective (only prosecutes case that open-and-shut) means very high conviction rate.
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