Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 70 posts

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#61

Post by beerandt »

baybal2 wrote: post #59
axguscbklp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it, thanks for explaining so clearly. The way I see it, because of nuclear weapons, no other country can actually conquer the US, so I much prefer free speech to any sort of propaganda initiatives meant to strengthen the US against other countries. We are already basically almost completely protected from other countries by our nuclear weapons. We do not need censorship and propaganda to add any sort of meaningfu…

> We are already basically almost completely protected from other countries by our nuclear weapons. US nuclear weapon stockpile will only be enough to neutralise just one military superpower. A country with resources, and economy to survive the first strike, can realistically rebuild, and come back with vengeance. I always retold my own variation on the Einstein's quote on WW3 as "WW3 will be started with nuclear wea…

>US nuclear weapon stockpile will only be enough to neutralise just one military superpower

Well that's not true. And it's especially not true with the new ICBM fuses and bomber launched stand-off missiles. The newly equipped icbms are an approx. 3x multiplier compared to having the same number of weapons a decade ago.

Which frees up weapons to be shifted either to new targets, or from strategic use to potential tactical use, with the new lower adjustable yields.

So even WW3 trench warfare has a good chance of still being nuclear warfare.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#62

Post by danrocks »

dirtyid wrote: post #54
danrocks wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have zero data to back up what you just said. Zero.

Plenty of papers analyzing developments in HK education curriculum pre/post handover from PRC/HK/western academics. Or demographic data on HK identity which diverge sharply by age cohorts pre/post as result of reforms. Or polling of HK sentiment of PRC stretching back since post handover. Or analysis from the mainland of why patriotic education was necessary to decolonize HK before culture fractures formed along gene…

Plenty of papers yet you cite none. Given the ad hominem attack, I looked through your history and I'm not very surprised at your being a Xi Jinping apologist and making constant broad, unsubstantiated claims about China's motives. Hence I won't bother with you anymore.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#63

Post by hkmaxpro »

ilovebiden wrote: post #60

Born and bred Hong Kong. I am supportive of this bill as usual western media making a mole out of a hill. As usual some western shrills and expats, masquerading as an expert in China policy, continue to cry foul when they are not on the ground. More than anything else, there are Hong Kongers who want peace and security which the western world will never comprehend. Period Hong Kong is part of China.

Nearly 60% of real Hong Kongers held the opposite view. Only about 31% supported the law.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-security-poll-ex...

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#64

Post by flycaliguy »

ilovebiden wrote: post #60

Born and bred Hong Kong. I am supportive of this bill as usual western media making a mole out of a hill. As usual some western shrills and expats, masquerading as an expert in China policy, continue to cry foul when they are not on the ground. More than anything else, there are Hong Kongers who want peace and security which the western world will never comprehend. Period Hong Kong is part of China.

Took me a minute to find the hidden message in there. Peace & Love

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#65

Post by ilovebiden »

flycaliguy wrote: post #64
ilovebiden wrote: post #60

Born and bred Hong Kong. I am supportive of this bill as usual western media making a mole out of a hill. As usual some western shrills and expats, masquerading as an expert in China policy, continue to cry foul when they are not on the ground. More than anything else, there are Hong Kongers who want peace and security which the western world will never comprehend. Period Hong Kong is part of China.

Took me a minute to find the hidden message in there. Peace & Love

Hidden message? More like you are blinded by your own bubble.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#66

Post by ksec »

danrocks wrote: post #46
wumaodang wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city was almost destroyed in 2019. Remember the molotov cocktails? The petrol bombs? The universities that turned into war zones? The vandalism of all kinds of public property? I don't like many of the things the Hong Kong government is doing, but I can understand why they feel they need to do it.

I wouldn't bother replying due to your submission history, but I will. The city was not "almost destroyed" in 2019. There were months-long protests with hundreds of thousands of people, and they only became violent after the government saw the need to repress violently instead of negotiating. Remember the Yuen Long attacks? The triads brought from Shenzhen? Legislators all in white saluting the gangs before they atta…

I am glad someone not actually from HK to point out all every single one of these incidents.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#67

Post by TeeMassive »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #53
alentist wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> both Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro come to mind as exceptions What do you mean?

I may be wrong, but from what I understand they had other goals than the pursuit of power and power alone. Specifically national independence, in both cases.

Yeah, those are called excuses.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#68

Post by hk-im-ad »

vgatherps wrote: post #31
danrocks wrote: post #8

I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo. All that is gone. Head over to the South China Morning Post an…

Similar situation here. Moved here a bit more recently than you, national security law became a thing after I arrived, and it’s been more and more aggressively enforced since. If you’re leaving to the US, can I ask how you’re going about it? My email is in my profile if you don’t want to post here. I’m trying to leave as well but my fiancée is facing what looks like a year or two long immigration process. It’s a bit…

If you are a U.S. citizen, your fiancé should be able to apply for a K1 visa. Then you'll need to get married within 90 days of entering the U.S. I'm sure you were planning on having some type of celebration of your marriage, but I highly recommend getting legally married asap. Once married, your fiancé will be eligible for a green card. Married green card holders can get citizenship after 3 years, so it's definitely helpful to get the clock ticking.

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#69

Post by opo »

axguscbklp wrote: post #9
missedthecue wrote: post #6

China's ability to completely control the domestic narrative is really really underappreciated in my point of view. Not that it is positive from a personal liberties standpoint, but in that sense that it is an incredible strategic asset. Imagine if the second world war had been fought today in the era of entertainment journalism, twitter reactionism, and professional punditry. It would be laughable. The war effort wo…

US citizens' desire to fight in WW2 perhaps largely came from propaganda to begin with - maybe in the absence of propaganda most of them would have been fine with doing nothing to help Britain, France, etc. About 60% of US WW2 soldiers were drafted, not volunteers. So it is not so much a question of no propaganda in the past versus propaganda today, it is more of a question of more tightly controlled propaganda in th…

>US citizens' desire to fight in WW2 perhaps largely came from propaganda to begin with - maybe in the absence of propaganda most of them would have been fine with doing nothing to help Britain, France, etc.

The attack on Pearl Harbor and Hitler foolishly declaring war against the US were the main reasons there was a great deal of support for the war.

>...About 60% of US WW2 soldiers were drafted, not volunteers.

It is misleading to put out that statistic without giving the context. The reason there weren't more volunteers is that the US stopped allowing most volunteers and just told people to wait to be called for the draft:

>...On December 5, 1942, presidential Executive Order 9279 closed voluntary enlistment for all men from the ages of 18 to 37 for the duration of the war, providing protection for the nation's home front manpower pool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: ‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

#70

Post by vgatherps »

hk-im-ad wrote: post #68
vgatherps wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar situation here. Moved here a bit more recently than you, national security law became a thing after I arrived, and it’s been more and more aggressively enforced since. If you’re leaving to the US, can I ask how you’re going about it? My email is in my profile if you don’t want to post here. I’m trying to leave as well but my fiancée is facing what looks like a year or two long immigration process. It’s a bit…

If you are a U.S. citizen, your fiancé should be able to apply for a K1 visa. Then you'll need to get married within 90 days of entering the U.S. I'm sure you were planning on having some type of celebration of your marriage, but I highly recommend getting legally married asap. Once married, your fiancé will be eligible for a green card. Married green card holders can get citizenship after 3 years, so it's definitely…

We spoke with some legal counsel, and they told us that K1 wait times have gone through the roof, 8 months to a year just to even get the consulate interview. As far as we understood, we would have to wait until the visa was approved before entering the states and getting married.
Post reply on HN