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Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

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Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#61

Post by atoav »

88840-8855 wrote: post #9
daenz wrote: post #6

An Apple recruiter recently reached out to me. I am in a fortunate position to turn down opportunities, so I made sure to explain that I am not interested in working for a company that is at the forefront of enabling further infringement on people's privacy. If you are able to push back, do it in any small way that you can.

I don't want to be that guy, but for this job there were lining up 300 more people. Nobody except of a tiny group of nerdy guys (including myself, ofc) is against this apple csam move. Just ask your parents or your non-tech friends if it's "ok" to scan people's phones to find those "bad pedophiles" in order to jail then up for the rest of their life. You will be surprised how much support Apple's initiative has in th…

> I don't want to be that guy, but for this job there were lining up 300 more people.

All of which could decide to stand up for individual rights, but won't with similar excuses to the one you formulated.

I know in US culture some see it as a strength to be selfish, but yet they complain about the society and the politics this kind of mentality necessarily lead to. If all the others are selfish, why should I be the sucker who pays for having principles?

Because suckers with principles shape a society until they don't.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#62

Post by [deleted] »

carom wrote: post #14

This is effectively a virus scanner. Files are hashed (in a fancy way), compared against known hashes, and matches are reported. Your Windows desktop has Windows Defender. EFF lost a lot of credence to me after the Best Buy case. They made this big fuss about how Geek Squad employees were agents of the state for reporting CSAM on a customers hard drive, while doing a requested file recovery. When searched, the defend…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#63

Post by [deleted] »

gefhfff wrote: post #46
2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody except of a tiny group of nerdy guys I think you oversimplify this by a lot. No, Apple reputation won't be severely damaged by this move immediately. But I do believe that those "nerdy guys" did a lot to push the Apple brand, and a big part of that push was due to security and privacy. Until recently Apple was always the "privacy brand" and it was hard to argue against it without going the full FSF route of…

No nerdy guy pushes apple for security and privacy. It is all closed source with data leaking by default - partially not possible to turn off. They rather push devices like librem 5, Pine phone, Fairphone with /e/os, but not Apple...

[deleted]

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#64

Post by raxxorrax »

88840-8855 wrote: post #9
daenz wrote: post #6

An Apple recruiter recently reached out to me. I am in a fortunate position to turn down opportunities, so I made sure to explain that I am not interested in working for a company that is at the forefront of enabling further infringement on people's privacy. If you are able to push back, do it in any small way that you can.

I don't want to be that guy, but for this job there were lining up 300 more people. Nobody except of a tiny group of nerdy guys (including myself, ofc) is against this apple csam move. Just ask your parents or your non-tech friends if it's "ok" to scan people's phones to find those "bad pedophiles" in order to jail then up for the rest of their life. You will be surprised how much support Apple's initiative has in th…

I don't think this is true. If you tell people they scan your stuff if you upload it to the cloud, a lot of people ask for alternatives.

I tell them that they can have a reasonable backup and network storage for a small amount of money and I believe their data is much safer on there.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#65

Post by erhk »

wruza wrote: post #58
skinkestek wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just ask your parents or your non-tech friends if it's "ok" to scan people's phones to find those "bad pedophiles" in order to jail then up for the rest of their life. You will be surprised how much support Apple's initiative has in the broad public. My Dad is an old teacher today and was formerly a farmer. My view is he clearly understands these issues and has done since I was a teenager sometime in the last mille…

some people will add terrorist material (i.e. history and chemistry books), other will add extremist material (religious writings), blasphemous material (Christian or Atheist teachings in Saudi Arabia), and other illegal content Apple doesn’t seem to do that covertly, what is wrong with blaming them when they actually do above things? This is a genuine question, because rn I see no issue with automated searching CP t…

Because apple has to change terms of service to permit this

But also this is a terrible argument. As a frog i will not wait until i am boiled to raise complaints.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#66

Post by erhk »

88840-8855 wrote: post #9
daenz wrote: post #6

An Apple recruiter recently reached out to me. I am in a fortunate position to turn down opportunities, so I made sure to explain that I am not interested in working for a company that is at the forefront of enabling further infringement on people's privacy. If you are able to push back, do it in any small way that you can.

I don't want to be that guy, but for this job there were lining up 300 more people. Nobody except of a tiny group of nerdy guys (including myself, ofc) is against this apple csam move. Just ask your parents or your non-tech friends if it's "ok" to scan people's phones to find those "bad pedophiles" in order to jail then up for the rest of their life. You will be surprised how much support Apple's initiative has in th…

We are a part of the public and we can influence politicians. Spread the word.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#67

Post by raxxorrax »

the_other wrote: post #48
bitwize wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than oppose a measure to protect children because of the fear of a few false positives, why can't you accept the fact that the societal benefit outweighs the potential risk? A few innocent men might be condemned to rot -- or be murdered -- in prison, but Apple has developed a system that mostly protects your privacy and could save the lives of potentially millions of children around the world. The rights of a…

> why can't you accept the fact that the societal benefit outweighs the potential risk? Because a shit technical solution (which opens the doors to other abuses) isn’t the fix. Because Apple are not the government. A meaningful scheme to protect the children would need: - better sex ed in schools - better education for parents and people who would like to become parents as to the risks and signs - publicly announced…

Funding of child care would identify the kids that are abused. Identifying any bad actor becomes much easier and targeted without compromising the privacy of everyone.

More eyes on the problem and you will get better results. Easy solution that cannot be abused by bad political actors.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#68

Post by skinkestek »

madaxe_again wrote: post #59
wruza wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some people will add terrorist material (i.e. history and chemistry books), other will add extremist material (religious writings), blasphemous material (Christian or Atheist teachings in Saudi Arabia), and other illegal content Apple doesn’t seem to do that covertly, what is wrong with blaming them when they actually do above things? This is a genuine question, because rn I see no issue with automated searching CP t…

You know how in history, occasionally the good old king would die and his crazy nephew would take over and burn all the peasants? This was possible because the king had absolute power. Now, you might argue that this absolute power in this case is being used for good - but given the brush the US just had with accidental Nero, it’s worth being wary of how tools and powers might not only be used by current powers, but b…

Exactly. If you don't want weapons of mass destruction to exist, don't create them and definitely don't tell anyone (too late).

If you don't want tools of mass oppression to exist, don't create them. (We are here now.)

The fight against Japan in 1945 was important, as is the fight agains child abuse today.

But we will have to live with the choises we make, in the short run like I wrote about above and also in the long run when a crazy president is elected like you write.

I actually trust local police and courts. But I don't blindly trust future police, future courts and future politicians.

And when it comes to multi national companies I trust them to maximize shareholder value, even if that means doing what China or Saudi Arabia wishes.

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#69

Post by Grollicus »

zxcb1 wrote: post #10

Reasonably, there are other criminals using iDevices, why stop at this? Even pre-crime police work may be feasible with AI and advanced pattern recognition.

Looking into the future with AI and advanced pattern recognition does not work for the stock market, why would it work anywhere else?

Re: Apple Has Opened the Backdoor to Increased Surveillance and Censorship

#70

Post by fsflover »

amazingman wrote: post #12
hamburgerwah wrote: post #4

Guarantee they will begin scanning your devices for unauthorized copyright material very soon if they have not already.

I guarantee you they won’t. My guarantee is at least as good as yours.

Your guarantee is worse, because Apple has shown themselves as pro-copyright and pro-scanning.
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