Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

tbray.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 300 posts

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#61

Post by notJim »

rootusrootus wrote: post #32
aakour wrote: post #18

I'm from Helsinki but live in Berlin, and drive between the two somewhat regularly. For this trip you essentially have two options - either via Denmark and Sweden, or Poland and the Baltics. You need to take a ferry to reach Finland regardless of which route you pick. The experience and emissions differ pretty dramatically. Intuitively you might think the total emissions would be lower for the Baltic route because of…

> Making the 1000km+ drive in one day isn't a big deal at all, I'm getting old. The thought of driving 600+ miles in a single day sounds like hell.

It's not so bad if you make sure to get good sleep the night before and start in the morning sometime, and perhaps take a long break somewhere in the middle.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#62

Post by 908B64B197 »

Kirby64 wrote: post #57
908B64B197 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Model X you mean. There's no way 7 can fit in an S (and be safe!).

No, he means Model S. It was an option (that is currently discontinued) that put 'jump seats' where the trunk would be. Not useful for anything except younger kiddos, but could be fine for younger kids. Sort of like the 7 seater option for the Model Y, yeah it technically exists but it sounds uncomfortable... See: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-discontinues-two-colors-rais...

I did not know that.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#63

Post by albertgoeswoof »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #26
feifan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the average price of a car last year in the US was around $41k. There are many options whose MSRP is under that price, e.g. https://www.myev.com/research/buyers-sellers-advice/comparin...

Once again, the "average" fallacy. In normal circumstances, the average is rarely the statistic you want to quote (and definitely not unless it is accompanied by standard deviation values). Median is the correct way to identify "the typical" [0]. You're in luck though. The median appears to be about $38k, so the difference in this case is not that great. [0] there's the old joke about (Gates|Bezos|Musk|...) walks int…

That’s the average new car, the median purchase price of all cars will be much lower

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#64

Post by sunstone »

bovine3dom wrote: post #53
hogFeast wrote: post #6

Wait until the author finds out how the batteries are made. EDIT: just to be clear, I am not a "climate change denier"...although always interested to have lots of random people attempt to diagnose me. I worked in equity research, I have seen mountains of reports on this topic: lithium and cobalt production are terrible for the environment (ignoring issues with forced labour and human cost at mines, most people who m…

The rule of thumb I've seen is that electric cars are about 25-75% better than fossil fuelled ones over their lifetimes, depending on energy mix and taking into account battery construction. So it's hardly nothing - it puts them roughly in the same league as steam trains per passenger-mile.

This may depend strongly on how your electricity is generated. Probably best to assume the electricity is solar generated since, over the life of a new EV, that's likely to be the closest to the mark.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#65

Post by theluketaylor »

rootusrootus wrote: post #34
ortusdux wrote: post #22

Also, charging by the minute seems wrong .... a Porsche Taycan is going to get a whole lot more range out of each minute than a five-year-old Nissan Leaf, so why should they pay less for the same amount of range? Hmmmm. Bear in mind that at home with the Level 2 charger in the carport, charging feels close to free. You are primarily paying rent to take up a charging spot vs. buying electricity. If it took some vehicl…

IIRC the primary reason there are any chargers with bill by the minute is that in some jurisdictions it is illegal for any entity other than the electric utility to sell power by the kWh.

In Canada where this trip took place it’s currently illegal to sell electricity via DC fast charger because Measurement Canada has not defined the standard to which your charger has to measure against to ensure fair dispensing. They are really dragging their heels and it’s super annoying. Even utility like BC or Quebec Hydro can’t sell by the kWh and either have to give it away from free or charge by time.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/mc-mc.nsf/eng/lm04949.html

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#66

Post by cleansingfire »

Retric wrote: post #51
cleansingfire wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just splurged and bought a very used Prius for $3,400, when my $400 car was stolen. I can't afford an EV. Many oriole can't. That dictate just ensures fewer people will be able to afford a car. Which might work with decent public transport.

Median new car in the US is over 38k, give it time and plenty of cheap EV’s will be around. Standard Range+ Model 3: $39k. 2021 base model Nissan Leaf: $32.6k. Considering even with a Prius most people would still be paying ~1,000$/year on gas, old EV’s will likely be more affordable.

Sure, and I look forward to it. The quote was "everyone... now" but I agree with your modified sentiment.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#67

Post by bovine3dom »

sunstone wrote: post #64
bovine3dom wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of thumb I've seen is that electric cars are about 25-75% better than fossil fuelled ones over their lifetimes, depending on energy mix and taking into account battery construction. So it's hardly nothing - it puts them roughly in the same league as steam trains per passenger-mile.

This may depend strongly on how your electricity is generated. Probably best to assume the electricity is solar generated since, over the life of a new EV, that's likely to be the closest to the mark.

That's what I meant by energy mix : )

Last time I checked France was the best place since they accidentally have a very climate friendly power grid. Then you're left with just the embedded emissions from battery construction and the rest of the car.

Edit: this is wrong

Another fun fact is that short haul flights have fewer emissions per mile than electric vehicles for many current energy mixes.

Edit: wrongness ends (I hope)

It's hard to beat mass transportation no matter what you stick in the engine - it's just physics that power requirements scale mostly with cross sectional area, so it's more efficient to increase length and volume.

Edit: I'd remembered a per km figure and a per mile figure and forgot that the units were different. In reality, fossil fuel cars are about 35% better than short haul flights, so electric cars emit about 1/3 as much as short haul flights.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#68

Post by rpmisms »

hogFeast wrote: post #25
rpmisms wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also very close to the average price paid for a new car in the US: $39k. > A huge share of pollution is caused by wealthy people jetting around every few days on planes. This is true, I'm not really into Tesla for the environmental aspect, I like them because they're fun appliances that break less.

Average for a new car. A lot of people can't drive at all. A lot of people buy used cars. It is funny because I find it hard to imagine a wealthy person in my own country not being aware of this...in the US, the wealthy seem to live on another planet. Okay, maybe. But lots of ICE manufacturers have 10-year warranties...they don't break down a lot. I also think that whilst a car is a "fun appliance" for some people, f…

I'm not in support of a mandate on EVs. I'm strictly talking about pricing and accessibility. Should have clarified that in my original response.

Edit: I also said "If you're buying a new sedan". That is a qualifier on my recommendation, which is Tesla.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#69

Post by feifan »

filoleg wrote: post #58
hogFeast wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla warranty for 100-150k (depending on model). There is so much misinformation about Tesla it is unreal (and not really worth arguing about, just crazy stuff like: Teslas will appreciate in value).

> There is so much misinformation about Tesla it is unreal (and not really worth arguing about, just crazy stuff like: Teslas will appreciate in value). How is this not real? This is literally something I can observe myself. I bought a new Model 3 LR AWD in 2019, and when I look for used listings for the same model right now, the exact same models from 2019 with about 22-30k mileage on them cost as much as what I pai…

To be fair, I think that's more attributable to the secular trend around car prices recently (car prices across the board are up because of chip shortages and buying demand from rental companies) rather than anything specific to Tesla.

But, re "there is so much misinformation about Tesla it is unreal" — I agree, but that doesn't mean you can just categorically ignore _all_ information about Tesla.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#70

Post by 908B64B197 »

theluketaylor wrote: post #65
rootusrootus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the primary reason there are any chargers with bill by the minute is that in some jurisdictions it is illegal for any entity other than the electric utility to sell power by the kWh.

In Canada where this trip took place it’s currently illegal to sell electricity via DC fast charger because Measurement Canada has not defined the standard to which your charger has to measure against to ensure fair dispensing. They are really dragging their heels and it’s super annoying. Even utility like BC or Quebec Hydro can’t sell by the kWh and either have to give it away from free or charge by time. https://ww…

Again the feds encroaching on state powers.
Post reply on HN