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What cats do when we’re not looking

theguardian.com

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Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#61

Post by danaris »

tzs wrote: post #52
peanut_worm wrote: post #26

Please keep your cats inside. Most ecosystems aren’t supposed to have near-apex predators running around killing everything. Outdoor cats kill over 2 billion birds a year.

How about keeping the cat indoors in the daytime and letting it out at night? Cats are naturally nocturnal so the cat should be happy with that. As far as I've been able to tell where I am, everything out at night that a cat would be able to reasonably encounter is either too big for the cat to kill or something that I would like the cat to kill (rats and mice). Well, I'm not sure about the weird floating blob thing…

Cats are not naturally nocturnal. They are crepuscular—active during twilight and dawn.

And putting the cat out for the night is still very bad, both for the cat (average life expectancy of outdoor cats is something like 50-70% that of indoor cats) and for the environment (they are an invasive nonnative predator species).

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#62

Post by gumby »

I can tell you what my cat is doing when I’m not looking: peeing in the bed. We’re trying to figure out what she’s trying to tell us — it’s a deliberate and abnormal signal from an aging cat.*

My experience with this cat is quite different from the article’s author’s. She is very sweet and meek and cuddly. But she has free access to the outdoors and until she was about 14 yo it was quite common to wake up to a cat asleep next to me but with half a rat or such in the bed.

Now she doesn’t go outside I’ve discovered that there are other cats in the neighborhood.

The good news is we have fresh bed linens every night. But I don’t think all that washing is good for the environment.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#63

Post by burnished »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42
peanut_worm wrote: post #26

Please keep your cats inside. Most ecosystems aren’t supposed to have near-apex predators running around killing everything. Outdoor cats kill over 2 billion birds a year.

That's what cats do. That's how bird populations are kept in check. A bird nest has what, 4 or 6 eggs? All those hatchlings are pretty much born to die in the first year. Because next year, the bird population is pretty much the same. Cats can only catch birds when they are plentiful. When the population is back within bounds, cats find birds hard to find. Its a natural feedback cycle, been around for millions of yea…

The part you aren't mentioning is that in your model cat populations decrease when they cant find enough birds, which allows for the birds to repopulate, which allows for the cats to catch them and repopulate.

The feedback cycle is broken where the cats have ample food supplied and the cat population no longer depends on the prey population.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#64

Post by 7402 »

h2odragon wrote: post #37

"Don't let your cats out" people are too citified for me to imagine. I'd have to walk a half mile to get a neighbor in rifle range; we need outdoor cat S , plural, to keep the rodent population dented around the house. It doesn't "keep mice out" to have 3 cats around, but it noticeably reduces their numbers and comfort level when they come after the sacks of feed. We're down to one cat this summer, and she's aged pas…

It's not just city people that keep their cats indoors. Almost no one where I live (suburban area in northern California) lets their cats out any more, because the cats get eaten by coyotes.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#66

Post by h2odragon »

7402 wrote: post #64
h2odragon wrote: post #37

"Don't let your cats out" people are too citified for me to imagine. I'd have to walk a half mile to get a neighbor in rifle range; we need outdoor cat S , plural, to keep the rodent population dented around the house. It doesn't "keep mice out" to have 3 cats around, but it noticeably reduces their numbers and comfort level when they come after the sacks of feed. We're down to one cat this summer, and she's aged pas…

It's not just city people that keep their cats indoors. Almost no one where I live (suburban area in northern California) lets their cats out any more, because the cats get eaten by coyotes.

We have a pack of hounds, part of their job is to keep the coyotes off the livestock. We used to keep ~10 acres but have pulled back to about 1ac in the last couple of years. It's been hard on the grey foxes, they've actually moved up closer to our house so our hounds can cover their den; I dunno but they might not be to blame for the loss of at least one of the cats, too.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#67

Post by JoeAltmaier »

mykowebhn wrote: post #50
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what cats do. That's how bird populations are kept in check. A bird nest has what, 4 or 6 eggs? All those hatchlings are pretty much born to die in the first year. Because next year, the bird population is pretty much the same. Cats can only catch birds when they are plentiful. When the population is back within bounds, cats find birds hard to find. Its a natural feedback cycle, been around for millions of yea…

Without humans the number of cats in the wild would be vastly lower. Put another way, cat populations are at a level that would not be supported naturally without human intervention. As such, when we let our cats out an inordinate number of birds are "kept in check" as you put it. This natural feedback cycle has been around for millions of years, just not the human element. So to repeat: Please keep your cats inside!

Feral cats outnumber domestic ones 2:1. Do humans affect that? Feral cat populations grow to fill their niche, with or without humans. I don't see how domestic cats account for more than a small fraction of the issue.

And again, when bird populations reach equilibrium the cats can't find more. That's independent of cat populations.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#68

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #58
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what cats do. That's how bird populations are kept in check. A bird nest has what, 4 or 6 eggs? All those hatchlings are pretty much born to die in the first year. Because next year, the bird population is pretty much the same. Cats can only catch birds when they are plentiful. When the population is back within bounds, cats find birds hard to find. Its a natural feedback cycle, been around for millions of yea…

You're on the right track, but domestic cats are not native species in most places.

Cats were on every continent thousands of years ago. How is that not 'native'?

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#69

Post by dspillett »

mykowebhn wrote: post #50
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what cats do. That's how bird populations are kept in check. A bird nest has what, 4 or 6 eggs? All those hatchlings are pretty much born to die in the first year. Because next year, the bird population is pretty much the same. Cats can only catch birds when they are plentiful. When the population is back within bounds, cats find birds hard to find. Its a natural feedback cycle, been around for millions of yea…

Without humans the number of cats in the wild would be vastly lower. Put another way, cat populations are at a level that would not be supported naturally without human intervention. As such, when we let our cats out an inordinate number of birds are "kept in check" as you put it. This natural feedback cycle has been around for millions of years, just not the human element. So to repeat: Please keep your cats inside!

I'll take the RSPB's advice in the UK (there is little/no evidence cats are having a harmful effects on bird populations in the UK, tall buildings may have more effect, pollution definitely does, other forms of habitat destruction even moreso, etc.), though my current boss is happily an indoor cat.

In places where cats are essentially an invasive species, not native at all, this is different of course.

Re: What cats do when we’re not looking

#70

Post by dspillett »

dwd wrote: post #7

There was a number of BBC articles years back on the tracking of cats. The maps of their ranges is quite fascinating: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22567526 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22821639

There were other interesting findings too: in areas with high populations of cats they seem to settle into time-share arrangements with parts of their territory, they are not just purely "this is mine all the time".

This all gets messed up when new animals arrive or the habits if existing ones change, but it seems back into a new mostly stable pattern eventually.

I wonder what difference more human slaves being home all day over the last 18 months has made to all this, and how much disruption there is as we slip back into something more like older patterns.

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