We Still Don’t Get Things Done • Hacker News Board

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#61

Post by Zedronar » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

Lightbody wrote: post #44

moksly wrote: post #32

The more project management tools I have to work with, the less likely I am to work for or with a company. I have a somewhat similar stance on software architecture. Sure, I’m TOGAF certified but if you actually expect me to work with notation correct Archimare/UML/whatever and not just draw boxes on a napkin you’re either insane or sell a product with no competition. This is anecdotal of course, but after 30 years o…

Say what you will about Amazon culture in general (I’ve never worked there)… but one of their leadership principals is Dive Deep > Leaders operate at all levels, stay connected to the details, audit frequently, and are skeptical when metrics and anecdote differ. No task is beneath them. IMO this particular trait correlates well with a need for less process / project management software. I really believe if more peopl…

I worked for two years at Amazon. My managers were not diving deep at all. At least not more than any other average manager in any other average company.

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#62

Post by colechristensen » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

quartesixte wrote: post #42

moksly wrote: post #32

The more project management tools I have to work with, the less likely I am to work for or with a company. I have a somewhat similar stance on software architecture. Sure, I’m TOGAF certified but if you actually expect me to work with notation correct Archimare/UML/whatever and not just draw boxes on a napkin you’re either insane or sell a product with no competition. This is anecdotal of course, but after 30 years o…

Credit due where credit is due: these project management software companies have done a good job of convincing people they need it. I've taken to using tools that most closely mimic notepad+pen or whiteboard+marker. Increasingly I am finding that a physical whiteboard, markers, and post-its are good enough. And if you need to create backups, the image quality on any smartphone is very, very good these days. The more…

What they do is give middle management something to do.

Often questionably necessary, middle management has a hard time doing something when engineers understand the product and upper management has the right balance of setting direction and entrusting decisions to the makers. So they start asking the engineers to do things and get upper management on the train of wanting reporting. Doing that with pen-and-paper engineering and people with context is HARD... so all of these tools exist to make this middle layer of doing work better.

And arguably unnecessary people earn a lot of money by convincing themselves and others that they are necessary, so companies get to be organized to have these high overhead tools to support this high overhead style of organization.

Now to be honest some level of organization is necessary, and becomes necessary as the enterprise and product grows in complexity, but very very few people work long enough or with a diverse enough set of organizations to be able to see what is necessary and when and what is not.

If you hire people and put them in a position and tell them they have to work a certain number of hours they will find or create work to do. Oftentimes this work is not better than doing nothing but the WASP work-ethic and general cultural norms really can't handle the idea that smart, important, useful people can provide the most value sometimes by not doing anything until they are needed.

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#63

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#64

Post by 4e530344963049 » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

https://trimread.org/articles/45

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#65

Post by ausbah » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

I find a to-do is mostly useful for just tracking all the things that pop into my head

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#66

Post by everyone » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

Perhaps being so fixated on productivity is not healthy. The whole concept was really only introduced to society along with mass industrialization. It seems that for most of history in most of the world most humans have spent a lot of their timing just sitting around, hanging out. I'd guess we're designed to do a certain amount of that each day.

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#67

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

I've found that GTD apps, TODOs, and even simple task lists, are rarely effective for me.

That does not mean they aren't effective. The Japanese corporation for which I worked, lived by them, and they were very effective.

But for me, I seldom need more than a couple of reminders on sticky notes, on my desk.

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#68

Post by systemvoltage » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

quartesixte wrote: post #42

moksly wrote: post #32

The more project management tools I have to work with, the less likely I am to work for or with a company. I have a somewhat similar stance on software architecture. Sure, I’m TOGAF certified but if you actually expect me to work with notation correct Archimare/UML/whatever and not just draw boxes on a napkin you’re either insane or sell a product with no competition. This is anecdotal of course, but after 30 years o…

Credit due where credit is due: these project management software companies have done a good job of convincing people they need it. I've taken to using tools that most closely mimic notepad+pen or whiteboard+marker. Increasingly I am finding that a physical whiteboard, markers, and post-its are good enough. And if you need to create backups, the image quality on any smartphone is very, very good these days. The more…

If you've ever worked in manufacturing, real Kanban boards are messy but organized for the people to know what's going on. Every Kanban board I've seen is unique in its own ways. Some use post-it notes and some specialized tokens that magentically attach to the board. Design of the board and layout can vary widely, but generally when you see one, it is a workshop organization tool made by people who feel comfortable using it.

Take away is that just because they're not using an off-the-shelf project management / WIP management tool, doesn't mean they're not organized.

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#69

Post by sesuximo » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 6:13 PM UTC

“In preparing for battle, I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.” –General Dwight D. Eisenhower

Re: We Still Don’t Get Things Done

#70

Post by sgt » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

markus_zhang wrote: post #37

kilroy123 wrote: post #14

I'm always curious how others "work." I use the Pomodoro technique myself, where I do a minimum of 8 sessions per workday. I try to do 10, but usually, I'm somewhere in between. I do not count meetings. Every day at work, I show up and do a minimum of 4 straight hours of concentrated and focused work. I often get told things like: "I'm killing it", "I'm a high producer", etc. To me, I feel like I'm cheating the syste…

>Every day at work, I show up and do a minimum of 4 straight hours of concentrated and focused work. It's a lot TBH. I'd laugh loudly if I can do that everyday. 4 hours of focused work most likely will deleptes all of my energy and leaves me drained after work. On my side. I work as a BI developer so a lot of time is spent in meeting. A day with 3 hours of meeting is fairly common but most of the time I don't need to…

Not sure I would be able to cope with 3 hr meetings on a regular basis. I try to keep meetings as short as possible (15-30 min), and to have an e-mail thread already having taken place in anticipation of the call.