Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes • Hacker News Board

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#61

Post by OhWellLol » Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #40

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put even a slightly finer point on it -- isn't this, in a sense, journalism without a filter? Video can lie, but it's probably a bit harder to make a live streamed video lie than an article that recapitulates the content of such a stream. One thing I do seem to see over and over is a pattern where journalists are a little annoyed when companies encroach on the role of journalists but do so for less money. I'm sure…

Journalism without a filter isn't journalism, it's surveillance. a critical part of journalism is choosing what not to cover. people pay attention to the things it's easy to pay attention to, and good journalism makes sure that the news that is front-and-center and easiest for people to find is actually news . not every crime scene is newsworthy, most are incredibly personal and sensitive moments for at least one par…

Another key part of journalism is to always make sure the political team you support is never guilty of being on the wrong side of history.

Paranoid discretion is the only thing protecting the frail veneer of democracy.

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#62

Post by danpalmer » Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #32

danpalmer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing I do seem to see over and over is a pattern where journalists are a little annoyed when companies encroach on the role of journalists but do so for less money. While there will be some bias from being challenged, I think there's also plenty of good reasons for journalists to challenge these sorts of companies. Journalism is a profession and brings with it a lot of ethical considerations. Teaching of journ…

I do understand that journalists aspire to ethical behavior in aggregate. What's ultimately not entirely clear to me is whether that aspiration is generally met to the degree that the profession is materially better at truth-telling than any other. I sure hope so. Then again, you can often read reporting on the same subject by journalists at CNN and Fox News, and the one inescapable conclusion is that someone is not…

There's a line somewhere between political leanings in valid reporting, and pure opinion around made up topics.

I don't know much about CNN, and don't watch Fox, but from what I've heard the actual news segments on Fox aren't as bad, it's the opinion shows (most of which masquerade as news) that are the bad bit.

In the UK we have several popular news channels and each has their own leanings, and while I think it's important that viewers are mindful of those leanings, I don't think it's too far out there to say that one can assume they are not being out-right lied to, and it's rare for a news channel to ever say something actually dangerous. There are issues, there are complaints made, but then there are typically retractions and the issues are fairly rare, compared to what I've seen of US media.

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#63

Post by aiisahik » Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #40

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put even a slightly finer point on it -- isn't this, in a sense, journalism without a filter? Video can lie, but it's probably a bit harder to make a live streamed video lie than an article that recapitulates the content of such a stream. One thing I do seem to see over and over is a pattern where journalists are a little annoyed when companies encroach on the role of journalists but do so for less money. I'm sure…

Journalism without a filter isn't journalism, it's surveillance. a critical part of journalism is choosing what not to cover. people pay attention to the things it's easy to pay attention to, and good journalism makes sure that the news that is front-and-center and easiest for people to find is actually news . not every crime scene is newsworthy, most are incredibly personal and sensitive moments for at least one par…

  pointing a livestreaming camera at the victim of every assualt or robbery is not providing any benefit to society

I do not agree. Assuming we provide privacy to the victim, this is absolutely a net benefit for society. To say otherwise would be to care more about the criminal than the victim.

This is especially true in the context of SF where the police/DAs are refusing to prosecute anyone. Videos keep the authorities honest.

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#64

Post by whywhywhywhy » Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 8:15 PM UTC

Doesn't seem particularly different from regular journalism/news companies.

Sidebar of NYPost as I'm on this article has one truck crash with 5 dead and one bridge collapse, or is it just journalists who are allowed to profit of this?

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#65

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 9:00 PM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #54

sickcodebruh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "nobody is forcing you to have it on your phone nor are they forcing you to be part of it" really the standard that we want when judging whether to share our revulsion about a company or product? You're not wrong about that part, I'm just not sure what your point is. It's no secret that social media in general stokes many of our worst impulses. Citizen strikes me as somewhat unique because it starts from such a ne…

Hate to break it to you but "nobody is forcing you" is kinda the standard in the US from vaccines to social media to guns. Everything is a choice here. There are plenty of countries out there which would have chosen to ban Citizen along with a whole long list of other even more idiotic things but this country is about freedom of choice even if that choice is bad for the greater community.

[deleted]

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#66

Post by 29083011397778 » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 2:06 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #47

notatoad wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Journalism without a filter isn't journalism, it's surveillance. a critical part of journalism is choosing what not to cover. people pay attention to the things it's easy to pay attention to, and good journalism makes sure that the news that is front-and-center and easiest for people to find is actually news . not every crime scene is newsworthy, most are incredibly personal and sensitive moments for at least one par…

I don't love a definition of journalism that includes journalists getting to decide what I am allowed to know. Analysis, interpretation, calling to attention that which is important, these are all great things. The filter part I'm less sure about. Of course we should be sensitive to victims and I don't think sensationalizing things is beneficial, but I also think that most of what I personally use Citizen for is to f…

I wouldn't classify it as being allowed vs not allowed. If you want to know, there are police records to comb through.

I'd describe it more along the lines of there only being so many hours in a day, and only a subset of those that journalists are paid for. It simply isn't necessarily possible to cover every crime, political choice, special event, upcoming event, and more, with the nuance it likely deserves.

Your objection, to me at least, reads more like a complaint about journalists not putting every action in and by the city front and center. But if everything is front and center, does that mean everything is, or nothing? We get into a lack of space on the front page, lack of time to read it, and lack of places to put up notices that are essential. We essentially run into what Arthur Dent did in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy [0], with "essential news" buried because something more essential was already there.

Regarding realtime use of Citizen that you described below, that doesn't sound like a bad use-case. I know it's not for me though. Having every incident sent via push notification (which I can only assume will occur on a long enough timeline to increase engagement) doesn't sound good for anyone's mental health. We may not be there yet, but I'm not sure I want to partake in encouraging society moving in that direction.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on...

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#67

Post by atatatat » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #54

sickcodebruh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "nobody is forcing you to have it on your phone nor are they forcing you to be part of it" really the standard that we want when judging whether to share our revulsion about a company or product? You're not wrong about that part, I'm just not sure what your point is. It's no secret that social media in general stokes many of our worst impulses. Citizen strikes me as somewhat unique because it starts from such a ne…

Hate to break it to you but "nobody is forcing you" is kinda the standard in the US from vaccines to social media to guns. Everything is a choice here. There are plenty of countries out there which would have chosen to ban Citizen along with a whole long list of other even more idiotic things but this country is about freedom of choice even if that choice is bad for the greater community.

Nobody is forcing you to get your license plate scanned by some random with giant plate scanners on his trunk at the grocery store.

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#68

Post by atatatat » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

aiisahik wrote: post #56

majormajor wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's anything like the Ring "neighborhood alert" notifications I briefly had on after getting a doorbell: no, not really. A filtered (only the worst things get reported) dubiously-accurate (lots of "heard something that sounded like gunshots") view of a large geographic area (they sent me stuff covering a much larger area than I would've been concerned of) isn't "the truth of who we are," it's just a window into h…

Oh totally agree that they are bating you into being a frightened animal holed up in your house. So i turn off the notifications and only go on the app if i am bored or if there's something happening locally i want to know more about. The citizen app is especially egregious but it's not the only app that does this. Unfortunately all social apps that rely on engagement have to create a false perception of the world in…

There's a place just like you're describing — Britain.

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#69

Post by atatatat » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

genericone wrote: post #35

danpalmer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing I do seem to see over and over is a pattern where journalists are a little annoyed when companies encroach on the role of journalists but do so for less money. While there will be some bias from being challenged, I think there's also plenty of good reasons for journalists to challenge these sorts of companies. Journalism is a profession and brings with it a lot of ethical considerations. Teaching of journ…

Then would you willing to gatekeep people from calling themselves journalists, ala a license via something like a bar exam, where violating journalistic standards could get you "disbarred".

Why not make a PDJ, Professional Doctor of Journalism, or similar?

"Journalist" doesn't need to be co-opted by a private org or the government, does it?

Re: Citizen pays New Yorkers to livestream crime scenes

#70

Post by atatatat » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #47

notatoad wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Journalism without a filter isn't journalism, it's surveillance. a critical part of journalism is choosing what not to cover. people pay attention to the things it's easy to pay attention to, and good journalism makes sure that the news that is front-and-center and easiest for people to find is actually news . not every crime scene is newsworthy, most are incredibly personal and sensitive moments for at least one par…

I don't love a definition of journalism that includes journalists getting to decide what I am allowed to know. Analysis, interpretation, calling to attention that which is important, these are all great things. The filter part I'm less sure about. Of course we should be sensitive to victims and I don't think sensationalizing things is beneficial, but I also think that most of what I personally use Citizen for is to f…

People used to grab their gun and see if someone needed help/be around to observe if any fuckery was amiss.