Stop hating Java

> "I always disliked the XML impact on the Java frameworks. It didn’t come from nowhere, though, let’s be fair. Java as a languages is not as readable as Ruby, so it wasn’t perfect for configuration. Yaml wasn’t popular and JSON was still not really mature back in 2000. Something had to be chosen and that was XML. What would you do better back then?"

This piece seems to be mistaking criticism of technology with criticism of people, which is what happens when nerds get too personally attached to languages, frameworks, OSs, etc. I don't think Java folks are stupid for using XML, or anything of the sort. The above succinctly lays out the reasons why that choice made sense at the time, but times change, and that is not a reflection on the judgment of those who made this decision.

For our app, we went straight up MongoDB driver. We didn't mess with an ORM at all. We still have our objects that end up mapping to Mongo, just not using a 3rd party lib. It's actually a really clean and enjoyable experience.

No, there's a direct relationship between the architecture astronauts and Java-the-languages. Since Java is so simple and so lacking in abstraction mechanisms compared to almost anything else, you end up writing FactoryFactories and all the facades and all that code goop just to get any sort of halfway decent abstraction out of the language. Even things like the AOP libraries that directly muck with JVM bytecode are a direct consequence of the fact that Java-the-language is so brain-dead that it's actually easier for them to directly fiddle with bytecode than work at the Java-language level.

This lack of abstraction mechanisms was by design; it was supposed to be simpler than C++, and it is. Unfortunately, it came from an era where people still thought OO was the uberparadigm and it met every need in it simplest form. I think I can safely close the book on that as being false; at the very least you need OO with borrowed features from older-generation functional languages like closures and first-class functions, like Python or Ruby.

Ok, I'll bite. I think insecurity is different than dislike.

If you asked me today what language would I use for a new web project, I don't think I'd pick a C based language. I don't really have much against that class - I use Objective-C every day. But I think it really comes down to the frameworks and libraries.

I spent the better part of the dot com coding in Java and C++. Towards the end of my Java days, the time it took to get ideas from paper to usable screen with JSPs, Spring, Hibernate - for one developer - seemed like forever. To make matters worse (and not so much Java's fault), I normalized the shit outta the database (a dba would have loved it) and having that fine grain of a data model just added insult to injury. So when I look at 'Java hate', I don't per say outright hate it, but I'm adverse to using it - especially for anything web. If you have a nice SOA, then I could see maybe using it for some services.

The last Java coding I did was in 2006 - that was my last Java contract client. After that, I switched to Ruby/Rails and that was that. A typical story I'm sure. Do I go to meetups and bash Java? No. Is the "eww, that would be like Java" heard around our office (current company is a Rails shop)? Yes.

However, my current company is hitting a ceiling with Rails. The fat model paradigm is starting to break down. Like us, as your project/app/company starts getting bigger and bigger, you start to hit growing pains with Rails. So I've been looking back at my Java history to find other patterns that were used to take some of the weight off the models and Modules where people have been putting things. Basically, Rails (IMO) is great to get you to a certain point, but after your system grows to a certain size, you have to start thinking about other ways to architect it. I think this is where SOA comes in and the data exchange is all done via json.

Would we consider using Java for any service? Probably not. Why? Because of the time and resources required to actually deploy the services. Like TFA says, Java picked XML. If someone actually made a simple app server where apps could be setup and deployed via properties (remember those?), then that might take some of the Java deployment sting out. Or, maybe if our team grabbed a dedicated release engineer, that might help.

So in the end, I don't think of myself or anyone I work with insecure about learning a new language. Most of the devs I work with came from a Java background. What makes more sense is being able to iterate very quickly over your ideas and just get shit done. This is why Ruby/Rails has been so successful. I don't find being cynical about Java a weakness at all. What would be worse in my mind is to get someone in who is not productive with the tools they're using. And for me writing web apps, I just don't feel productive using Java and its associated frameworks/libs/tools/servers.

Actually, the Smalltalk community got it from Forth, where it was called "factoring" (no "re-"). See e.g. Leo Brodie's _Thinking Forth_ (http://thinking-forth.sourceforge.net/).