Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you • Hacker News Board

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#61

Post by BigBubbleButt » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #58

BigBubbleButt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you just described is an example of imposter syndrome (at least the way I think of it). The comment I was responding to was not. If the lawyer feels like an imposter in her current role, that's different from feeling like an imposter in a role you don't even have. This is the distinction I'm making, and why I think the label doesn't fit. Should I feel like I have imposter syndrome because I'd be uncomfortable as…

If someone doesn't think of themself as a "real artist" even though they really do make real art, they might not seek a paid job that uses their art skills, as a UI designer or otherwise. I think that could reasonably be described as "imposter syndrome" by a layperson, but I'm not going to haggle over whether or not it meets a formal definition.

> but I'm not going to haggle over whether or not it meets a formal definition

I'm not trying to haggle, but we can't have a meaningful conversation about a term if you aren't going to define it.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#62

Post by chevill » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

BigBubbleButt wrote: post #55

hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a psychological condition afflicting someone, not that they're actually an imposter. Imagine a lawyer who is terrified to go to work every day. She went to a good law school, got good grades, passed the bar exam, is well-respected in her field, etc. But she is terrified that her colleagues will, one of these days, find out that she's not even truly a lawyer at all -- she's just someone who managed to jump throug…

What you just described is an example of imposter syndrome (at least the way I think of it). The comment I was responding to was not. If the lawyer feels like an imposter in her current role, that's different from feeling like an imposter in a role you don't even have. This is the distinction I'm making, and why I think the label doesn't fit. Should I feel like I have imposter syndrome because I'd be uncomfortable as…

>Should I feel like I have imposter syndrome because I'd be uncomfortable as a professional athlete, something I don't do?

We aren't talking about short couch potatoes being scared to apply to the NBA. That's a justified sense of inadequacy.

We're talking about people switching from one fairly normal job to another one that probably has a lot of overlap with what a person was already doing. Imposter syndrome is the unjustified sense of inadequacy.

Its not a binary thing though. Some people would have a little bit of doubt transitioning to a slightly different role and that's normal. Change is scary to lots of people to varying degrees. However, some people are very competent, yet might be afraid to apply for a higher level position or a slightly different role because they fear that they are actually terrible and that they've gotten where they are due to luck and graft. That's imposter syndrome.

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#63

Post by coldtea » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

sfotm wrote: post #33

coldtea wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is based on use. Popular use is never incorrect. Dictionaries don't dictate language, they try to follow it.

I hear this argument pretty frequently, but it comes off as more of an excuse. Most people aren't thumping the dictionary like a fundamentalist might a Bible, they're just pointing out that they have a different understanding of the word than another person does. Language is useful when everyone's on the same page. And especially regarding words drifting toward hyperbole, exaggeration, and sometimes simple misuse, so…

>Sincerely, a person that refuses to let to of the whole "literally" thing. I'm great at parties.

Literally has been used to also (or mainly) mean "figurativelly" for centuries, including in major authors, it's not some new phenomenon from some unsophisticated masses...

It's just a sound, it's not attached to some inherent meaning that must stand still till the end of time. Not to mention etymology (it originating from the word literal) != meaning.

In fact, literal itself (and literally) have changed meaning twice in the past, originally they were used to talk about things related to words not to mean "in actuality" (which is also where "literature" comes from: littera from which literature and literal comes from meant: "letters").

So, it's people who don't know the proper history and use of literally that are annoyed by its used as "figuratively".

Probably they also don't know that literally wasn't about "in reality" to begin with, or that this is just one of many contronyms, words that mean both one thing and the opposite (e.g. "dust" - you "dust" to clean a house, and you also "dust" to sprinkle some powder on something, or "clip" which means both to attach and dettach, "sanction" - to approve or to put punitive measures on, etc.).

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#64

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

antiterra wrote: post #2

This article feels like a bit of a mess. It doesn’t really back up either of its two statements. Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out. There’s an interesting tie between UI/design and a color principle. There’s recognition that an artist may find this gratifying and relevant. But, it’s a limited example not necessarily relevant…

> Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out.

Actually, it requires that you perceive other people to perceive that you have abilities, etc., exceeding what you perceive yourself to have. Role is tangential, though having a role that (you perceive) creates an expectation of particular abilities might contribute to you perceiving others to be perceiving you to have the abilities.

But, relative to the immediate context, it is correct that not feeling qualified for a role you don't have and that you don't think you are or would be seen as qualified for by others for is just (justified or not) low (relative to an arbitrary target) self-image, not impostor syndrome.

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#65

Post by quacked » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #10

bobthechef wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of them would rather die than work in tech. At least until they need to pay the bills.

Apparently many of them would rather not pay the bills

I don't know why you're being downvoted, I know at least 15 people who got some kind of art degree, they pefer to work brutal late-night shifts at a pizza shop or deliver food/drive Uber than take a spreadsheet jockey temp job, even if it pays 3x as much.

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#66

Post by coldtea » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #39

coldtea wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is based on use. Popular use is never incorrect. Dictionaries don't dictate language, they try to follow it.

Reasonable, but if you have conclusions that refer to meaning A and meaning B is now dominant, your conclusions may be false. For instance, let's say "begging the question" is a logical fallacy and we're in the universe where it refers to the circular argument fallacy. Fallacious arguments are bad and so we can dismiss an argument that relies on this. Now, let's say over time "begging the question" means "the questio…

>That is, if meaning shifts, you must bust your cache on conclusions that follow out from the original meaning.

Certainly. But most of the time the problem is not people that have a "stale case", but that know perfectly well what the new meaning is, but are opposed to others using the word in that sense for ideological or pedantic reasons.

I mean, nobody really thinks "I'm literally dead from exhaustion" means I'm actually dead. They know perfectly well what it means, and have no meaning-cache issue. They just want to be pedantic...

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#67

Post by motioncuty » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

pkdpic_y9k wrote: post #41

As a practicing visual artist / art school hippie who recently got into working as a software engineer I got really excited when I saw this, noted problems aside. But I wasn't surprised to see it was limited to UI/UX. I'm having a really hard time finding other art school grads and visual artists working on the engineering side of tech and it's starting to make me feel a little crazy. Does anyone have any suggestions…

Hey, lets link up. Does HN have dm's?

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#68

Post by shadowlight » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

bryik wrote: post #23

nicoburns wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that UI design isn't really art. If you're interested in both, then great! But they're about as similar as fiction and non-fiction writing.

> UI design isn't really art Who are you to say what is and is not art?

I have little respect for "artists" who do UI because the job requires little skill.

Sites and exposes like the parent of this entire thread serve to inflate the worth of people who do this stuff.

Painting the mona lisa is talent. Arranging text and pictures with flat colored geometric elements is NOT talent.

The idea that the still life painting is even comparable to some website design is laughable. It takes a lot of skill to be able to create that painting, it takes almost no skill to devise the layout to that site.

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#69

Post by pkdpic_y9k » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

yungbeto wrote: post #59

pkdpic_y9k wrote: post #41

As a practicing visual artist / art school hippie who recently got into working as a software engineer I got really excited when I saw this, noted problems aside. But I wasn't surprised to see it was limited to UI/UX. I'm having a really hard time finding other art school grads and visual artists working on the engineering side of tech and it's starting to make me feel a little crazy. Does anyone have any suggestions…

Art school grad here - Though I'm not a professional software developer myself, I have a couple artist/SWE friends who are involved in the Algorave community along with a lot of other creative coders. While not a strictly visual medium it could be a nice jumping off point to look into! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorave

Hey thank you so much!

Semi-related, I've been trying to get some resources together for a handful of artists / musicians trying to break into tech on this linked repo.

If you or your artist/SWE friends have any suggestions on helpful resources I'm desperately trying to get more on there via pull requests or the discord linked in the repo!

https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources

Re: Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

#70

Post by baldanders » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

Regarding imposter syndrome: While I know that imposter syndrome is a real phenomenon that people experience, I think that it's become some catch-all solution to the fact that many young people have not actually put in the practice to master their craft. The times in my life where I've felt "imposter syndrome", it would go away after I had put in the work to get better at whatever subject/hobby I was feeling like an imposter doing. This has led me to believe that the majority of people who are dealing with imposter syndrome are in fact just experiencing the perfectly normal discomfort of recognizing that they are not yet as competent in something as they would like to be.

I think this may be a result of the postmodern emphasis on subjectivity that has pervaded American culture for the past decade and a half. If your art sucks, which of the following options is easier on your ego? Saying people "just don't get it" and that you're suffering from a psychological condition, or that you just need to practice more?