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Why North America's killer heat scares me

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#61

Post by TigeriusKirk »

powderpig wrote: post #9
hpoe wrote: post #3

So one question I've had for a while is if we are currently facing such a catastrophe with increased global heat why don't we go ahead and start conducting massive explosions to kick dust up into the air. When Krakatoa went off it caused global cooling throughout the entire world because of the amount of matter it introduced into the air so why don't we do the same right now at least as a stopgap measure if things ar…

I think all geo-engineering is a bad idea. The least worse idea is sucking CO2 out of the atmosphere. The consequences of any geo-engineering ideas are not well understood.

Then it's time to start understanding them.

Let's start pouring money into research so we don't have to go in blind.

Climate change is at the point where there are actual consequences to people. Humans being what we are, we're not going to sit around and just accept a dramatically worse situation. People (very wealthy people with a lot to lose) are going to demand action, and action is going to be taken.

We can go in blind or we can start learning what the plusses and minuses of various approaches are now.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#62

Post by JKCalhoun »

throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

It sounds like these daily climate change disaster stories better serve those policy makers than they do you.

To that end, yes, please keep reporting on them.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#63

Post by briefcomment »

dragontamer wrote: post #26
briefcomment wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as if you're 100% certain about these things, which is obviously not possible.

I'm 100% certain in the vaccine's effectiveness on the average American. Sure: Immunocompromised individuals may not be saved even with the vaccine (not enough B-cells or T-cells to fight off the disease even with the vaccine training them up). But its pretty much 100% proven at this point that the vaccines are 99.999%+ safe (all deaths due to vaccine are measured in the 10-in-a-million or smaller magnitude), while b…

And are you 100% certain your sister and sister-in-law are average Americans?

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#64

Post by dragontamer »

briefcomment wrote: post #63
dragontamer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 100% certain in the vaccine's effectiveness on the average American. Sure: Immunocompromised individuals may not be saved even with the vaccine (not enough B-cells or T-cells to fight off the disease even with the vaccine training them up). But its pretty much 100% proven at this point that the vaccines are 99.999%+ safe (all deaths due to vaccine are measured in the 10-in-a-million or smaller magnitude), while b…

And are you 100% certain your sister and sister-in-law are average Americans?

I believe them to be well above-average Americans on the scale of intelligence.

If its this difficult to convince them of the facts, when they're open to understanding scientific data, then I don't expect much from the average American.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#65

Post by hattmall »

jjcon wrote: post #32

A few years ago we would make fun of people who questioned global warming when it snowed… now we claim it is in fact global warming when it’s hot out? Edit: Politicization of individual weather events makes way for bad science no matter how extreme. In general, individual extreme weather events are not evidence of climate change and it is my opinion that everyone sounds stupid when they politicize them. Instead we sh…

While there's evidence that our usage of fossil fuels is certainly impacting the environment in a way that may alter certain aspects of climate there is really no reason to believe in catastrophic climate change. I think Plato's quote about death is equally applicable to climate change.

> To fear death is nothing other than to think oneself wise when one is not; for it is to think one knows what one does not know. No man knows whether death may not even turn out to be the greatest blessing for a human being; and yet people fear it as if they knew for certain that is is the greatest of evil.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#66

Post by hooplah »

hacknat wrote: post #44

The only thing that can save us from the cataclysm of climate change is technology. It's too late for social engineering and politics.

Fracking did manage to drop our emissions phasing out coal. But politics gets in the way of natural gas all the time. Politics got in the way of nuclear as well.

Also, if you truly want to cut emissions, stop caring about "per capita" and force your politicians to start holding the biggest polluters accountable and the countries not decreasing their emissions.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#67

Post by generj »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #35
zbrozek wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could imagine something a bit better controlled could be ok. Large areas of solar panels, engineered to reflect as much as they can't use, would be a good double benefit. Excess electricity could be opportunistically used for GHG capture or the panels could maybe flip over and become mirrors. An orbital umbrella that we could modulate such that we can deal with unanticipated consequences could also be ok. I'm sure…

I agree that geoengineering is exceptionally fraught with potential problems, but perhaps it is time to begin exploring the options at least. from my own understanding and reading one of the few feasible cooling efforts would be high altitude aerosol dispersal, which again, has serious risk of unintended consequences. There is also room for a bit more pressure on countries which emit excessive amounts of carbon, that…

Solar shades have great potential and the unintended consequences can at least be mitigated. Unlike aerosol dispersal they can be “turned off” semi trivially with onboard thrusters or specialized missions. Cost estimates were at $100 Billion 10 years ago which were doubtlessly optimistic, but Starship will dramatically lower the cost of deploying a few hundred tons of shades.

One risk of not exploring geoengineering is that cheap options for it exist and most countries are technically and economically able to engage in them. If a country feels like the burdens of climate change fall unfairly on them, the option exists to do something drastic.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#68

Post by Pokepokalypse »

dragontamer wrote: post #26
briefcomment wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as if you're 100% certain about these things, which is obviously not possible.

I'm 100% certain in the vaccine's effectiveness on the average American. Sure: Immunocompromised individuals may not be saved even with the vaccine (not enough B-cells or T-cells to fight off the disease even with the vaccine training them up). But its pretty much 100% proven at this point that the vaccines are 99.999%+ safe (all deaths due to vaccine are measured in the 10-in-a-million or smaller magnitude), while b…

The vaccine is 0% effective against denialists.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#69

Post by tdfx »

dragontamer wrote: post #26
briefcomment wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as if you're 100% certain about these things, which is obviously not possible.

I'm 100% certain in the vaccine's effectiveness on the average American. Sure: Immunocompromised individuals may not be saved even with the vaccine (not enough B-cells or T-cells to fight off the disease even with the vaccine training them up). But its pretty much 100% proven at this point that the vaccines are 99.999%+ safe (all deaths due to vaccine are measured in the 10-in-a-million or smaller magnitude), while b…

I did not downvote you, but I want to explain why some people might be. I don't doubt that the majority of people here, even people downvoting you, don't disagree that the vaccine seems to be mostly safe and effective, based on the limited data we have so far. But you're not saying that: you're saying you're 100% sure and willing to bet your life and the lives of others on that certainty, which is not rooted in statistics but rather emotion. You're following the same style of thinking as the conservatives you criticized, just at the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Re: Why North America's killer heat scares me

#70

Post by joshstrange »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #23
throwaway284534 wrote: post #6

Respectfully, I’m getting fatigued from hearing about climate changes. Not because I don’t care, but because I feel powerless to do anything major about it. For all the recycling I’ve done, a single factory can undo in just a day. Being defeatist isn’t exactly productive, but hearing that calamities are happening on a daily basis doesn’t help much either. I really do think the only way this’ll get better is after som…

I sympathize with and share your exhaustion, but I force myself to pay attention to these stories. They remind me why Climate Change is always my #1 priority when voting in elections, and when thinking about the world writ large. There was an editorial in The Atlantic a couple of years ago—which I now can’t seem to find—titled something like “We should be covering climate change like it’s the only story that matters”…

I was listening to a podcast a while back (middle of 2020) and the guest said something the effect of "If I could choose to end racism or reverse/stop/slow/fix climate change I would choose climate change. If we don't stop/slow climate change then nothing else will matter, if we fix the climate we have the time to address racism". I'm not exactly sure why but that has stuck with me and has shaped my thinking around it since. The fact that addressing climate change is just tacked on the current infrastructure bills making their way though congress (or at least the one going through budget reconciliation since it would never pass in the senate with that) is sad. I understand some of the political reasoning behind it, it's not as sexy of a topic as other things in the bills but it's just incredibly depressing how little attention appears to be paid to it.
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