Live data from Hacker News

DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

blog.doordash.com

61–70 of 283 posts

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#61

Not surprised. I'm probably a fair bit older than the average HN reader (finished undergrad in 1995). This is the hottest job market I've seen since the height of the dotcom bubble (mid 1999 to early 2000), and if it continues along it's current trajectory it will pass that by year end.

> This is the hottest job market I've seen

Clearly this is anecdotal, but what types of things lead you to this conclusion?

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#63
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your RSUs are based on a fixed amount (which I believe is the case for all the new hires in DD) and not no of units That's quite surprising. Generally RSU comp is based on a particular monetary amount, but converted to no. of units upon issuance based on market prices (usually at/close to start date). Is this not the case with DoorDash? If that's the case that seems... awful? That's a cash bonus with a downside.

What I've seen is generally the conversion happens once for the whole package, when you sign. So if the stock grows during your vesting period, the value increases (goes both way obviously). I think here they are mentioning value based, which means that instead of being given X amount of shares/rsu over 4 years, you're given "the equivalent of $X" at the begining of each years. So after 1 year, of the stock doubled i…

That's typical, but I've heard of a move away from it, to a plan where you get a set dollar amount every month(?) and it's converted to employee shares at the market rate then. Sounds like DoorDash just moved to it, and someone has linked a Blind thread where apparently Stripe/Instacart have, and I heard from a friend that Lyft just moved to that as well.

I can see the importance of this from the company end - with tech company shares skyrocketing, a fixed share amount gives them potentially unlimited stock compensation liabilities which could drag on earnings. But from an employee perspective, it sucks. You get none of the upside of company stock appreciation but all of the downside of being forced to purchase company stock with a portion of your compensation. You're much better off taking higher cash compensation and using that to purchase the stock of hot tech companies on the open market.

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#64
post #34

It looks like DoorDash just put up a big banner at their front door saying if you want to stay less than a year and still get paid highly apply here. Wouldn't this move incentivize employees seeking short term employment thus diluting stocks given out to existing long term employees?

People who are only staying because of vesting tend not to be the most productive. Better for everyone to have someone who's not working out or doesn't want to be there leave after a quarter instead of dragging it out for a year.

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#65
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's common in the industry to see RSU grants shown as say, "$50k" - but that's $50k in stock as of the grant time. Once the grant is finalized, the value of the RSU grant grows with the stock. ie, if the stock is $100, then it's the same as 500 share grant. This Blind post is saying that Instacart/Stripe says you only get $50k no matter the price of stock? How would you even structure that kind of grant? Why…

I work at a smaller company, and here we convert the $ price to a number of shares by taking the 100 day VWAP of the stock from the date of the board meeting where your grant is approved.

I had to google it...

VWAP == Volume Weighted Average Price

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/vwap.asp

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#66

Not surprised. I'm probably a fair bit older than the average HN reader (finished undergrad in 1995). This is the hottest job market I've seen since the height of the dotcom bubble (mid 1999 to early 2000), and if it continues along it's current trajectory it will pass that by year end.

Browsing /r/cscareerquestions it looks like entry level folks are having a hard time breaking into the industry. Employers are mostly recruiting senior levels it seems.

> Employers are mostly recruiting senior levels it seems.

Because no one is going to hire a junior developer to work remote. The job market isn't especially hot, it's just temporarily distorted in a way that favors more experienced developers.

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#67

The article seems to intentionally obscure whether the previous vesting period was quarterly or not. My cynical read of this is that they are changing the vesting schedule to quarterly (instead of monthly, which is more typical), and burying the lede on that by painting this as a benefit to employees (when it really only impacts new employees). Does anyone know if this is true or not?

Typically, there's a "cliff" after the first year, at which point it switches to quarterly. So you get nothing the first three quarters, but after quarter 4 (your first year at the company), 25% of your 4-year grant is immediately vested. Every quarter after that is another 6.25% of your initial grant. I believe the point they were trying to make in the article is that, instead of quarterly grants following the patte…

[deleted]

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#68
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's common in the industry to see RSU grants shown as say, "$50k" - but that's $50k in stock as of the grant time. Once the grant is finalized, the value of the RSU grant grows with the stock. ie, if the stock is $100, then it's the same as 500 share grant. This Blind post is saying that Instacart/Stripe says you only get $50k no matter the price of stock? How would you even structure that kind of grant? Why…

I work at a smaller company, and here we convert the $ price to a number of shares by taking the 100 day VWAP of the stock from the date of the board meeting where your grant is approved.

I stand corrected, however, shares are fixed at time of grant is my point.

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsing /r/cscareerquestions it looks like entry level folks are having a hard time breaking into the industry. Employers are mostly recruiting senior levels it seems.

I think this is a problem across the industry. Companies don't want to give engineers adequate raises so they get trained as juniors and walk out and get 20-30k raises. So then everyone is only interested in seniors. Senior has all but lost its meaning too... It describes how long you've been in the industry, not if you have the skills to be a technical leader, etc. At larger corps when a senior leaves, you're often…

I don’t think it’s a question of raises, more like they’re just not willing to invest the time.

Most non giant companies don’t have good processes for on boarding engineers so it’s mostly yolo. They want engineers to be productive very quickly. Someone just out of college will likely not have the skills required to drive projects on their own to completion without help/supervision.

Bigger companies have pretty great onboarding tools and processes and dev tools that abstract most complex things away, allowing developers to become productive rapidly. I think of them as factories that can extract the most value out of new grads.

I say this as someone who was a junior not that long ago, but of course my experience is anecdotal so take it with a pinch of salt.

Re: DoorDash removing 1-year cliff for equity grants

#70
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a bit of a selection bias going on in that subreddit. I finished undergrad last May and had multiple offers to choose from well before I even graduated. Maybe covid has slowed hiring since, though.

I only had 4 offers to choose from. It's a bimodal distribution between the 200K+ 0YOE folks and everyone else.

>> I only had 4 offers to choose from

I busted ass to get a single job; how is "only" 4 offers not amazing?

Post reply on HN