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Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

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Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#61

Post by GavinMcG »

carrolldunham wrote: post #30

Is there a mistake in this logic: "If you can't figure out how to stop suffering (to no end), you are not actually so smart." ? In anticipation of objection that the question of one's own suffering is somehow outside the realm of analysis: I am not a Buddhist but having tasted the freedom from emotional suffering that was the result of his (the buddha's) analysis of the situation of being alive and his logical deriva…

It's a rhetorical statement, not a logical one. Koans aren't logical either: they're meant to prompt inquiry.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#63

Post by pizza »

_y5hn wrote: post #6
nathias wrote: post #2

This type of depressive nihilism is just a reaction to the destruction of values, after that you can progress towards an optimistic nihilism, building your values on truth instead of lies.

Makes me ponder what corporate values are.

optimistic nihilism

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#64

Post by pizza »

rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

Is it even meaningful to say that the universe - everything - has an entropy? Isn't it not even meaningful to talk about the entropy of something that is in a non-equilibriated state? People point to experiments about gas particles bouncing off the walls of closed boxes to prove how entropy is always increasing, but it really makes no sense to transfer that to the whole universe.

I have been much more convinced that the universe, starting from a maximally structured configuration, tends to even greater structure, as Julian Barbour wrote about in the Janus Point. Structure emergence, as opposed to catastrophic mixing. My perspective used to be like yours but it has become: the game is only starting.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#65

Post by handrous »

rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

> For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void"

The "vacuum the rug" comic went over well in my social group.

https://imgur.com/d9KdAvH

And so did a certain look into Mister Peanutbutter's inner life, which re-contextualized some things, after seasons of his being a goofy and dopey character (though, very occasionally, and tellingly, not—also, thematic/character spoiler warning for Bojack Horseman, I guess?):

"The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead."

And of course there's Frost's "Maple", which, for me, always comes to mind when "meaning" is the topic:

http://famouspoetsandpoems.com/poets/robert_frost/poems/731

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#66

Post by johnchristopher »

rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

> Hwæt! The Universe might be meaningless, these nihilistic Viking ghosts whispered to me, across the centuries. Live bravely, do not allow yourself to wallow in despair while entropy gathers itself. Make meaning, fight, build, love, stay healthy right in the face of the Uncaring Void. It's the only thing you can do. Entropy will win. Until then, make it meaningful.

Those vikings are more existentialist than nihilistic to me ^^.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#67

Post by adamc »

My ex-wife (who was with me for decades) tagged me as an existentialist early on, and I guess it was true. I don't really understand how we can see the universe another way, without lying to ourselves: bad things happen, and nothing is done about it. What Christian theologians have called "The Problem of Evil" leads me to see the universe as uncaring, indifferent.

The only way out of it that has worked for me is to care about other people (and animals, etc.) -- to focus on the small things I can try to make better.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#68

Post by sysadm1n » 

    The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why. – Mark Twain
You can't go around like a headless chicken in life. You need purpose or even some abstract goal to attain. We shouldn't be hungup about outcomes and enjoy the process instead, since you are only fighting entropy trying to have the outcome be exactly the way you envision it.

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#69

Post by bitexploder »

NL807 wrote: post #52
rendall wrote: post #35

For me and a friend, we'd joke about our existential despair. "What's wrong?" "The Void" Any philosophy that just asserted that the Universe has meaning was a non-starter, for me. There is nothing that I can see that unambiguously tells me that the Universe ultimately has absolute purpose or meaning. It could, but anyone who tells you they know the fundamental question of why we are here is delusional or a liar. The…

I think I'm cool with that. There is no meaning to any of this chaos, but I make an effort to make my life feel meaningful, and that's all that matters. Like clay, on its own has no purpose, but you can fashion it into bricks and build something with it.

Though we know of the universe and it’s vastness, now, the thing that keeps me grounded is that we exist in a framework. The framework of the planet, of our evolution, of our exact position in space and time, etc. it all surrounds us. It is a great cosmic accident, or triumph if you want to be glass half full, that we exist. It seems a shame to not fully explore this framework of ours and understand as much as we can. I know I am just making up my own meaning, but I like to juxtapose the realness of discovery, knowledge, the human experience with the vastness of the cosmos. We are infinitesimal blips in the cosmos, yet for us it is everything. I think deep inside of me is an insatiable curiosity about everything and that drives me and keeps the existential crisis at bay because… there isn’t really one. It’s just us here on earth and we are enough. This isn’t a rigorous philosophical statement or way of approaching the world, but it works for me. (I have read a lot of philosophy and even dabbled in formal philosophy to try and make sense of everything, but I keep pulling up to simpler concepts to rationalize it all)

Re: Dabrowski’s theory and existential depression (2020)

#70

Post by SMAAART »

I have recently (in the past couple of years) overcome depression that had been with me practically my entire adult life, and now I have my anxiety somewhat under control.

Depression is such a big problem, mostly unaddressed, and the "tools and processes" out there don't have a high success ratio.

Sounds a great business school case:

Huge demand

Inadequate supply

And yet the problem persists. This is the Unicorn of Unicorns, capturing 1% of the market with 1% success rate would yield a $1B valuation.

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