I don't understand the proposal. Let's say everyone on HN suddenly stops praising WFH. So what? Are companies going to stop outsourcing? Are legislations going to stop being passed?
Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
61–70 of 165 posts
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
You conveniently misrepresented an opinion and then ran it to the most illogical conclusion possible. Saying the most highly paid US workers take a 10% pay cut if it means other economies rose above the poverty line is absolutely fine in my opinion. If you think that is akin to starving the entire US population so my country can live like Sheikhs, I feel like that's on you.
> If you think that is akin to starving the entire US population so my country can live like Sheikhs, I feel like that's on you. Talk about jumping 27 places in terms of drawing artificial conclusions. I got to see, up close, what deindustrialization looks like, during the 1980s and 1990s in the US. Its consequences are intensely negative on the population it affects. Allowing the US tech industry to be outsourced to…
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Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's all well and good until you're the one who loses your job. Then you can root for the non-US worker's family who got your job for half the salary. Enjoy your American-owned employer making more money for its stockholders and executives while it continues not paying taxes, to a country that doesn't federally provide basic social services. There is something to be said for watching out for your community. The onl…
> to a country that doesn't federally provide basic social services Mate if you're going to try that one don't be defending America with it haha. Gofundme campaigns are a part of your healthcare system.. e: acknowledging your edit and comment, throttling for downvotes does suck. I wont force a back and forth through edits.
> Mate if you're going to try that one don't be defending America with it haha. Gofundme campaigns are a part of your healthcare system.
Why not? The US has an enormous welfare state, one of the biggest and most expensive in the world in fact.
Which isn't the same thing as pretending the US has a well-run and efficient welfare state, which it does not.
Fun fact: the US spends more of its economy on its welfare state, than either Canada or Australia do, and just below Switzerland. That's simultaneously a testament to how massive the US welfare state has become, and how poor its efficiency often is (what with our world-topping per capita healthcare costs, nobody gets less bang for the buck on welfare spending than the US).
The bottom 24%-28% (depending on the year) in the US receive free healthcare, which costs north of $700 billion per year. Medicaid alone costs around $650 billion now. The US further has an array of other free and subsidized healthcare programs, at the local/state/federal levels, and I suspect most foreigners are entirely ignorant that any of it exists.
The various government systems of the US spend $9-$10 trillion per year, depending on the year, or roughly 40%-45% of the economy. Did you think that was all going to military spending?
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#64But outsourcing already exists, with well known pros and cons. I would be a bit surprised if this WFH thing meant that everything went offshore.
There is still a huge culture gap to bridge that sure enough some firms will try, but enough others will not. Even hiring an English speaker in India would put off a fair number of people, and that's despite us all knowing that IIT grads are pretty smart.
What I do think will happen is this will turn out to be a win for experienced devs and a lose for new grads. I can now hire a semi retired guy (or gal) who wants to live in the countryside and pick up his kids each day, for something that we can negotiate to suit us both comfortably.
The grad is gonna have problems, because I don't come across a lot of people who think they can be trained at home. They need that injection of culture that is a bit of leap into the deep end of the pool for most people when they start working.
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
You conveniently misrepresented an opinion and then ran it to the most illogical conclusion possible. Saying the most highly paid US workers take a 10% pay cut if it means other economies rose above the poverty line is absolutely fine in my opinion. If you think that is akin to starving the entire US population so my country can live like Sheikhs, I feel like that's on you.
> If you think that is akin to starving the entire US population so my country can live like Sheikhs, I feel like that's on you. Talk about jumping 27 places in terms of drawing artificial conclusions. I got to see, up close, what deindustrialization looks like, during the 1980s and 1990s in the US. Its consequences are intensely negative on the population it affects. Allowing the US tech industry to be outsourced to…
>I got to see, up close, what deindustrialization looks like, during the 1980s and 1990s in the US.
I don't have the same experience so I can't argue it.
> Allowing the US tech industry to be outsourced would be an identical repeat of the stupidity of what the US intentionally allowed to happen to its industrial empire
And yet it seems to me that you're doing rather well as an economy all these years later. Wasn't the capitalist argument that the size of the pie is not fixed or some such?
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But I guess it's okay to leave us all out to pasture if it means you can concentrate just a bit more of wealth. If we're speaking of things like employment, of course people should look out for their own self-interest. Proposing the opposite is to propose suicide. The people of Norway should donate their trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund to Togo? As opposed to continuing to concentrate their extraordinary wealt…
Companies should also look out for their self interest and employ the best possible talent at the lowest possible cost
… While simultaneously living under the umbrella of the US taxpayers who fund a monster US defense department that sends young Americans to secure resources for these corporations by killing countless people in defenseless nations.
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#67> you will destroy one of the last remaining well-paying job market in the long term. Speaking of the long term, it's not hard to imagine it is doomed no matter what individuals choose. SV exists because there was no efficient way to collaborate remotely. WFH still sucks today, but is much better than before. There are countless startups are trying to fix this, therefore it will get better gradually. Eventually, SV w…
“There are countless startups are trying to fix this, therefore it will get better gradually.”
Better how? By making WFH more like working in an office?
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#68Your post seems more nationalist than anything else. I’ve worked at a geo-distributed company for a long while and let me tell you: The diversity of viewpoints and experiences will make your teams stronger, happier and more resilient. That culture needs to be consciously built though. That won’t happen in and of itself. But it’s so, so worth it. To anyone else reading this: Don’t buy into the "us versus them" rhetori…
Are you willing to give up some of your salary to hire people in other poorer countries than where you live? Would you rather your neighbors and family get good jobs and/or training for good jobs? Or would you rather those jobs go to people in another country? Are you a “dirtball nationalist” going down a “dark path” for wanting people in your community to get these jobs?
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#69It's inevitable the playing field will be leveled, and we never deserved the advantage to begin with.
The US more than earned the advantage. It built half of the global tech industry from the ground up. Shall I begin listing all the consequential technologies that were invented in the US in the post WW2 era? It's an exceptionally long, comprehensive list, spanning from the GUI to the router to the microprocessor to Unix to the transistor to the LED and LCD to DSP to ethernet to RAM to hypertext to streaming media to…
That way, the entire world owes India for inventing 0.
Past inventions don't count as brownie points in the present
Re: Tell HN: Don't root for WFH, it might destroy well-paying jobs
#70Hot take: if you're a mediocre dev, maybe be worried; if you're in a niche and have deep expertise you'll be fine.
That’s what barrel makers told the horseshoe fitters :) From Wikipedia In some countries, such as the UK, horseshoeing is legally restricted to people with specific qualifications and experience
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