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Group Video Calls

telegram.org

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Re: Group Video Calls

#61

Post by 0xy »

AegirLeet wrote: post #43
vetinari wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not supporting E2EE (cite: Telegram is not E2EE) and E2EE being not on by default are two very different things. Not being on by default has an impact on other things, that the users value more. If they were on by default, they would lose it and Telegram would lose part of its appeal. This way, users themselves can choose the trade-off they are happy with.

Not having it enabled by default means most people will never enable it at all. That's just plain reckless. Privacy is a human right; it shouldn't be part of any "trade-off", just like you can't sell yourself into slavery, even if you really wanted to.

It's bothersome that you don't admit that your false statement was false and continue to double down with irrelevant discussion. Telegram has E2EE therefore you are wrong.

"Telegram is not E2EE" is factually incorrect.

WhatsApp has E2EE however it ships your private keys to cloud storage by default. So it's even less secure than Telegram.

Re: Group Video Calls

#62

Post by godelski »

input_sh wrote: post #55
godelski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. This has been my frustration with Signal lately. They've had a large growth in a userbase but feels like they aren't growing their team fast enough to become real contenders with Telegram and WA. You don't have to move fast and break things, but you do have to move.

The only feature I can think of since that growth annoys the shit out of me. They've started syncing notification settings, so I can either have both my laptop and my phone beeping or none. Combine that with working within a small team that primarily uses Signal and it's absolutely terrible. Leave them off and you'll miss something important. Leave them on and my phone beeps after work hours. And since there's nothin…

Yeah the syncing issue has been hitting me more. Not as bad as Slack though, but still enough that where I've answered something on my desktop it'll still ring my phone. It's better than Slack because this is at least 10 minutes after I responded on desktop). I'll admit that I'm willing to give Signal more leeway than Slack because they're small. But these things hinder growth.

But the features I've seen since growth are: 1) group call (which happened during early growth), 2) screen share on desktop, 3) color hinting in chats removed (which now results me in messaging several people I didn't intend to because I've been trained for years to rely on colors for hinting and it takes longer to untrain users. Thank god delete exists...) 4) mobile coin.

I'm still waiting on 1) usernames 2) channels 3) easy access to community based stickers (or just an official repository!). Things that I don't care about but the community does: 1) backup of messages 2) transferring messages between phones. Honestly after these two things a lot of other stuff is "cool." But these make it more usable. A 20 minute interaction with Signal users outside the community forums will illustrate how important these things are to people (the community forums have a real group think that's a big disconnect from what most users want). I'm all for more UX devs and making the app prettier, but it's no longer "early 2021" and we still don't have them (and have been waiting for years). It feels like there's a larger disconnect between devs and us users than there was in the past. People wouldn't throw a fit about MOB if the rest of the platform was moving along steadily and would probably be treated as "cool, but I'm not going to use it and have reservations." I'd welcome cool stuff like that, or noise canceling (featured in this update), or any other stuff if the rest of the platform was moving along.

I'm losing faith in Signal. I fought so hard to get my friends on board (years!) and now that we have critical mass it feels things have slowed instead of accelerated. It isn't just us "hackers" and privacy conscious people anymore. To the devs reading this: I love you and appreciate the work you do, but help us out here. We don't understand why these weird decisions are being made and they feel like step backwards instead of forward.

Re: Group Video Calls

#63

Post by phwak »

qwertox wrote: post #34

To me Telegram feels like the red corner district of a city. I simply don't feel like I can trust it, there's something very shady about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Telegram reads those exclusive Bitcoin whale groups and uses that insider info. Group chats are not end to end encrypted. That being said, WhatsApp is like the authorized garage where you know that you'll get the service which is officially recognized…

> Group chats are not end to end encrypted.

End-to-end encrypted group chats are currently in the works.

Source - https://t.me/durovschat/518625

Re: Group Video Calls

#64

Post by AegirLeet »

0xy wrote: post #61
AegirLeet wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having it enabled by default means most people will never enable it at all. That's just plain reckless. Privacy is a human right; it shouldn't be part of any "trade-off", just like you can't sell yourself into slavery, even if you really wanted to.

It's bothersome that you don't admit that your false statement was false and continue to double down with irrelevant discussion. Telegram has E2EE therefore you are wrong. "Telegram is not E2EE" is factually incorrect. WhatsApp has E2EE however it ships your private keys to cloud storage by default. So it's even less secure than Telegram.

If you install Telegram and message someone, your message is not E2EE. That falls under "not E2EE" in my book.

Re: Group Video Calls

#65

Post by finolex1 »

Yaina wrote: post #5
olah_1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have the most productive and high quality engineers in the game. And I say this as someone that whinces at telegram for not having e2e encryption by default.

The Telegram Apps are all great and have so many awesome features that are crucially also extremely well implemented. Everything seems so well thought through! It's just incredibly scary not to know anything about who these developers are, where they are located and most importantly how this is all financed! I understand Pavel Durov is a very wealthy man, but developing and hosting a popular global messenger service…

Is there anything secretive about their developers? I see a lot on LinkedIn for what it's worth.

Re: Group Video Calls

#66

Post by Saris »

Telegram has absolutely amazing UX on all platforms I've used it on, I hope they can roll out encryption for group chats soon and show somehow that we can trust that encryption.

Re: Group Video Calls

#67

Post by meowface »

dan-robertson wrote: post #53
qwertox wrote: post #34

To me Telegram feels like the red corner district of a city. I simply don't feel like I can trust it, there's something very shady about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Telegram reads those exclusive Bitcoin whale groups and uses that insider info. Group chats are not end to end encrypted. That being said, WhatsApp is like the authorized garage where you know that you'll get the service which is officially recognized…

I’m not sure I’d want group chats with thousands of members to be end-to-end encrypted. It doesn’t even seem that clear what the actual utility of it would be.

I agree, but where are you getting that number from? They said "group chats", not "massive group chats". I would certainly want group chats with less than 20 people to be end-to-end encrypted, if it were possible.

I think a decent compromise would be just enabling it by default for private group chats, since it'd be costly and pretty pointless for public ones.

Re: Group Video Calls

#68

Post by dheera »

Saris wrote: post #66

Telegram has absolutely amazing UX on all platforms I've used it on, I hope they can roll out encryption for group chats soon and show somehow that we can trust that encryption.

Really? Every Telegram group I tried to chat started spamming me with notifications every few seconds and I uninstalled the damn thing.

The UI also looks like it was made by a intern who just learned how to use Android Studio, not like something new and cool. The actual text "Telegram" and a magnifying glass button instead of a search bar, hamburger menu instead of your own profile pic, no big fat QR scan icon, ...

Re: Group Video Calls

#69

Post by Arathorn »

joecool1029 wrote: post #6
vishnumohandas wrote: post #2

I'm amazed by the pace at which Telegram ships features, and with what finesse.

While the development teams at Telegram should be applauded I can't stress enough that it helps that they don't have E2EE and centralized most of the complexity to their server. Related regarding feature deployment: I got some negative feedback for dumping on Matrix for announcing Spaces without iOS client support. They should have waited until Element had all their major platforms covered before announcing it. It's…

It wasn’t a roll-out - it was the announcement of the first public beta. Spaces has lots left to do: not just iOS but private spaces etc too.

Re: Group Video Calls

#70

Post by dheera »

rvz wrote: post #54
yewenjie wrote: post #10

Telegram is getting so many cool features that I really wonder how long can it sustain being ad-free and user-centric.

Exactly. It recently got a feature that totally obliterates Clubhouse out of the Pacific ocean. At this point Telegram is unrivalled and already has almost everything that WhatApp has, except for E2EE turned on by default.

I feel like Clubhouse looks a lot more polished as an app though. Telegram feels like a CS 101 "hello world" messenger app demo. Yeah I know it has more features than that, but it looks like it has no features.

When you go into Clubhouse you know you're in Clubhouse. They don't need to write "Clubhouse" at the top of the app. There are no generic buttons such as hamburger buttons. It's obvious which account you're logged into just by looking at the icon at the top right. Almost every use has a profile pic. There is attention to negative space and typography.

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