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New GitHub Issues Beta

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Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#61

Post by buro9 »

martinwoodward wrote: post #48
telaandrews wrote: post #26

It floors me that they haven't addressed the underlying architecture issues that made Issues unusable: Issues are only for a single repo. Business users don't (and shouldn't) know what repo to add an Issue to. This is why we moved away from Issues and none of these new visualizations make the product usable until they deliver multi-repo issues.

The new project experience allows you to track issues that are in different projects, prioritise them alongside each other etc. I work at GitHub where we've been trying this out for a while and it's working pretty well so far for a bunch of the projects I work on when you need that cross-project visibility and co-ordination.

What I need:

1. Issues that can be linked to other issues (regardless of repo), i.e. local issue blocked by remote issue

2. Projects that can contain issues from multiple repos, even a mix of public and private repos

Please say this is now possible, otherwise we too are looking at Linear, Jira, etc when we'd like to be looking at Github.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#62

Post by swebs »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #35
robinhood wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mostly don't. Once you have Jira, you have Confluence, then Bitbucket. That many less contracts to manage.

Yeah. We used to pay for GH Enterprise and run Jira/Confluence/Bamboo/etc/etc. Then we switched to BitBucket Server because it integrates better and cost a lot less, plus GH Enterprise was a weird black box VM back then that we had to hack into to make work for whatever reason. I couldn't point you to anyone who likes BitBucket Server, but as long as you're on the CLI and don't have to use the terrible web UI too muc…

I've never had a problem with the web UI. My only complaint is that it doesn't render Jupyter notebooks.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#63

Post by denimnerd42 »

justinjlynn wrote: post #55
denimnerd42 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

first step of any agile transformation is to get yourself neck deep into atlassian products. 2nd step is to setup complex JIRA workflows and reporting and use it to break all agile principles. third step is for your devs to take none of this seriously and put fake data into JIRA which your middle managers never catch onto. then your engineers who actually want to get shit done leave and you're left only with people w…

This is so close to reality it really hurts - like a good The Onion article... excellent satire. Powerful tools are flexible enough to be used correctly by knowledgeable people and help people become knowledgeable. Badly designed tools are tools which don't help people become knowledgeable and don't prevent unknowledgeable people from harming themselves or others using them. Atlassian tools, like JIRA, are almost alw…

Right, it turns into a political game instead of a powerful and useful tool. We have no control over how we use JIRA. It's all prescribed by someone and we don't even know who or how to reach out to them. Even the middle managers don't know how JIRA is being prescribed. They go one step worse and make Tableau dashboards from JIRA to track their own metrics that are so bad it's just... like The Office. We play the game though every day and get great feedback. This feedback is never from our customers (internal) though. Although they give us great feedback as part of the game too. Our actual delivery is very inefficient and slow though. The hierarchical structure of the org is such that feedback never makes it up the chain because that's highly discouraged. So they just keep wasting money.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#64

Post by thebooktocome »

mbesto wrote: post #53
tyingq wrote: post #9

I wonder how tense things are over at Atlassian right now. Jira seems so universally hated that it feels like any competition that ticks a few basic needs could start hurting them.

> Jira seems so universally hated that it feels like any competition that ticks a few basic needs could start hurting them. I regularly meet with tech companies in the 2~10 person dev team range and easily 70%+ still use Jira. These co's have the choice of choosing Jira (i.e. it isn't being jammed down on them by a corporate overlord) yet there's still hate? I don't get it. I'm beginning to think the Jira hate is sim…

I work at a 2~20 person shop and other than the BigPicture Gantt chart plugin not scaling well, we're all more or less happy with Jira.

There was a lot more complaining during our self-hosted GitLab days but I can't recall a specific reason why.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#66

Post by t3e »

mbesto wrote: post #53
tyingq wrote: post #9

I wonder how tense things are over at Atlassian right now. Jira seems so universally hated that it feels like any competition that ticks a few basic needs could start hurting them.

> Jira seems so universally hated that it feels like any competition that ticks a few basic needs could start hurting them. I regularly meet with tech companies in the 2~10 person dev team range and easily 70%+ still use Jira. These co's have the choice of choosing Jira (i.e. it isn't being jammed down on them by a corporate overlord) yet there's still hate? I don't get it. I'm beginning to think the Jira hate is sim…

This aligns with my experience talking to lots of small startups of this size. It amazes me that 2-man shops use Jira, but they do, because they know it from their previous jobs and don't want to bother finding/learning a new thing. We also run across Trello and Asana a lot.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#67

Post by justinjlynn »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #63
justinjlynn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so close to reality it really hurts - like a good The Onion article... excellent satire. Powerful tools are flexible enough to be used correctly by knowledgeable people and help people become knowledgeable. Badly designed tools are tools which don't help people become knowledgeable and don't prevent unknowledgeable people from harming themselves or others using them. Atlassian tools, like JIRA, are almost alw…

Right, it turns into a political game instead of a powerful and useful tool. We have no control over how we use JIRA. It's all prescribed by someone and we don't even know who or how to reach out to them. Even the middle managers don't know how JIRA is being prescribed. They go one step worse and make Tableau dashboards from JIRA to track their own metrics that are so bad it's just... like The Office. We play the gam…

Yes. Long feedback loops and perverse or misaligned incentives == PAIN. Tools like JIRA do absolutely nothing to discourage nonsense like that - and, in fact, provide features designed to support workflows which require them.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#68

Post by agentdrtran »

Groxx wrote: post #30

"it's just a spreadsheet, and [view X] is a filter on that sheet" is a nice mental model. I've had lots of managers organize stuff in google sheets and then copy to [task manager X] simply because it's easier to think about - they'd probably love this. I certainly would, vs Jira's massive "everything is custom UI / a unique concept" mess.

Their spreadsheet view reminds of Airtable a bit, or the notion-like tools that are very popular right now.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#69

Post by dempsey »

Groxx wrote: post #30

"it's just a spreadsheet, and [view X] is a filter on that sheet" is a nice mental model. I've had lots of managers organize stuff in google sheets and then copy to [task manager X] simply because it's easier to think about - they'd probably love this. I certainly would, vs Jira's massive "everything is custom UI / a unique concept" mess.

Yes! We use a Google Sheet to track subtasks of issues. Now maybe we won't have to. Breaking every subtask into its own issue is too much and using the Project tool has a similar problem where it can become overwhelmingly noisy. Spreadsheet style lists are the cleanest way to see a lot quickly.

Re: New GitHub Issues Beta

#70

Post by denimnerd42 »

justinjlynn wrote: post #67
denimnerd42 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it turns into a political game instead of a powerful and useful tool. We have no control over how we use JIRA. It's all prescribed by someone and we don't even know who or how to reach out to them. Even the middle managers don't know how JIRA is being prescribed. They go one step worse and make Tableau dashboards from JIRA to track their own metrics that are so bad it's just... like The Office. We play the gam…

Yes. Long feedback loops and perverse or misaligned incentives == PAIN. Tools like JIRA do absolutely nothing to discourage nonsense like that - and, in fact, provide features designed to support workflows which require them.

Yeah. it never makes sense to make any noise about it either because the people you can reach either don't understand the problem or don't have the power to fix it. It only makes the person making noise look bad.
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