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Minimum Viable Self

kneelingbus.substack.com

61–70 of 80 posts

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#61
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “‘No Spectators’ is a long-standing saying on Playa. You are encouraged to fully participate. It’s all about being there, being fully present, and not just observing. Two of the ten principles of Burning Man are radical participation and radical inclusivity, meaning that there are no outsiders. Everyone is part of the experience.” That sounds like shit the big head on the screen would yell at Winston in the opening…

At least the inhabitants of Airstrip One didn't have to suffer from outrageous prices for food and idiot rich college kids and "influencers" slumming it for a weekend.

[deleted]

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#62

I know very few people who want attention from strangers when they go out in public. Most of us want to be left alone while we go about our business. Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. The lurkers are there to look at people attempting to get attentio…

>Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. There's a lot to learn from lurking. My mother watches Tik Tok videos and doesn't post herself, but cooks more now than ever based on the ideas she sees on there. You can learn about a cultural trend, a social cause…

> I don't like that Burning Man curator's quote calling their saying a form of "inclusivity" when it doesn't include the lurker.

Indeed. If you explicitly provide no space for spectators, that just means you radically reduce the set of people who want to participate at all. There are plenty of lurking-friendly spaces elsewhere so I don't think that Burning Man needs to change the policy or anything, but to pretend that it is super inclusive because the excluded group is not even present is just not true.

In fact, Burning man can be said to epitomize the western secular idea that individual freedom is the highest good. There are plenty of cultures where this idea is not considered to be true. Even in the US, you can find lots of (evangelical) groups that would find people having orgies, doing drugs, not praying and in a general sense indulging themselves without thinking about God and society an abhorrent idea. In general, all cultures where some sort of patriarchal/matriarchal hierarchy is the norm (ie the tribe elders get to decide for everyone what is best) would fare pretty poorly at Burning Man I think.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate that this is a novel non-knee-jerk take on social media but not sure I fully buy it, mostly because the way commerce/the algorithm modifies this “stage” in real time. Art/performance always has and will have some commercial aspect, but it’s usually appears before and after but not during. Maybe the closest analog would be the improvising comedian that takes the set into a direction depending on what peop…

Thank you and yes, the algorithm is a problem. I may have a funny thing that one set of friends like, but the algorithm shows it to another set who don't get it because it wasn't for them, but because they logged on first or some other algorithmic input they get it and the others don't. Maybe FB should let me input hints on who I intend it for.

This was the idea behind Google+'s circles.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#65
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I simply don't inhabit it, and I don't feel that I'm missing out. I've wondered about this - but how do you know what you are missing out on? For example, if you were active on twitter or LinkedIn and carefully cultivated those profiles, who knows what life changing connections you may have made? (I've seen several people comment on getting jobs, business partners, fellow hobbyists, etc. on twitter.) *edit: missed…

I've not asked the question "what I am missing out" for like almost a decade. It came from the realization that I constantly and always "miss out" on 99.99% of things that happened in the universe. Whatever more Twitter I read won't move the needle of the statistics. Rarely it happens that my success depends on things I "miss out". On the other hand, usually that my success depends on how well I take advantage of the…

The more I reduced my Twitter use, the more I realized how certain states of mind get stuck in it easily. The less anxious I got, the less concerned I was with missing out on online stuff, and the less I wanted to use Twitter obsessively.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#66
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. There's a lot to learn from lurking. My mother watches Tik Tok videos and doesn't post herself, but cooks more now than ever based on the ideas she sees on there. You can learn about a cultural trend, a social cause…

> I don't like that Burning Man curator's quote calling their saying a form of "inclusivity" when it doesn't include the lurker. Indeed. If you explicitly provide no space for spectators, that just means you radically reduce the set of people who want to participate at all. There are plenty of lurking-friendly spaces elsewhere so I don't think that Burning Man needs to change the policy or anything, but to pretend th…

>> “I don't like that Burning Man curator's quote calling their saying a form of "inclusivity" when it doesn't include the lurker.”

> “Indeed. If you explicitly provide no space for spectators…”

I think of this very differently. Burning Man has grown organically with the dawn of the Information Age. It is a product of it.

No matter how you use the Internet, when it comes to learning and engagement, look at the origins—sharing of scientific information. You are a scientist/artist. You do things. You publish and promote your work in the vein of the scientific method—-making reasoned claims of truth which a stand on their own merit until proven false. It’s not a stretch to make a similar statement of art.

It’s a virtuous cycle, no? If you are “lurking” then you are not contributing to the cycle but only benefiting from it. Not participating is a mistake, and failure.

It’s a mistake because the health of the Internet is measured in truth. The actual financial cost can be very low, creating your own original works and expressions of truth.

“The real world” is already full of spectators. We call them customers.

If there is a hypocrisy at BM, it’s that the cost and time investment favors individuals who have benefited (financially) in the real world from “lurkers” who are willing to pay a modest fee to get their information instead of using those costs to learn to participate and cooperate with others. The only real remedy for individuals who struggle to participate in their own is to organize and form groups. And this work is difficult and people’s feelings will be hurt and they will suffer cognitive dissonance with our dominant culture of consumption and consumerism.

So in the end I would take a line from within the Python community: be excellent to each other.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#67

I know very few people who want attention from strangers when they go out in public. Most of us want to be left alone while we go about our business. Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. The lurkers are there to look at people attempting to get attentio…

> “‘No Spectators’ is a long-standing saying on Playa. You are encouraged to fully participate. It’s all about being there, being fully present, and not just observing. Two of the ten principles of Burning Man are radical participation and radical inclusivity, meaning that there are no outsiders. Everyone is part of the experience.” That sounds like shit the big head on the screen would yell at Winston in the opening…

I think theres a minor difference between a world with no choice and the rules of an event you choose to attend. Maybe more than minor considering how much conscious effort is required just to attend said event.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#68

I know very few people who want attention from strangers when they go out in public. Most of us want to be left alone while we go about our business. Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. The lurkers are there to look at people attempting to get attentio…

> Burning Man attempts to solve this with the no spectators rule

I think that people who choose to go to Burning Man or similar festivals probably score much higher on openness trait (from the big five). Also, psychedelics and certain euphoretics (such as MDMA) said to permanently increase this trait, too.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#69
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't like that Burning Man curator's quote calling their saying a form of "inclusivity" when it doesn't include the lurker. Indeed. If you explicitly provide no space for spectators, that just means you radically reduce the set of people who want to participate at all. There are plenty of lurking-friendly spaces elsewhere so I don't think that Burning Man needs to change the policy or anything, but to pretend th…

>> “I don't like that Burning Man curator's quote calling their saying a form of "inclusivity" when it doesn't include the lurker.” > “Indeed. If you explicitly provide no space for spectators…” I think of this very differently. Burning Man has grown organically with the dawn of the Information Age. It is a product of it. No matter how you use the Internet, when it comes to learning and engagement, look at the origin…

> It’s a virtuous cycle, no? If you are “lurking” then you are not contributing to the cycle but only benefiting from it. Not participating is a mistake, and failure.

Not necessarily. Your argument contains the premise that the choice is between lurking and contributing and indeed if that were the case then contributing is the more beneficial one and lurking should be discouraged. However the premise is false, because there is the third option of not participating at all.

Imagine a group of (say) ten creators, ten non-participants and zero lurkers. If one non-participant switches to being a lurker, the total amount of knowledge about (and enjoyment from) the thing in question will increase, while the enjoyment of the creators stays the same. The total amount of enjoyment has increased. It could perhaps increase even more if the newfound lurker would also create, but that is not always an option and the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#70
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “‘No Spectators’ is a long-standing saying on Playa. You are encouraged to fully participate. It’s all about being there, being fully present, and not just observing. Two of the ten principles of Burning Man are radical participation and radical inclusivity, meaning that there are no outsiders. Everyone is part of the experience.” That sounds like shit the big head on the screen would yell at Winston in the opening…

Strong disagreement here! 1984 was about an opiated, programmed masses. Everyone was heads down, keeping to themselves in that world, doing as they were told, receptive. It was the ultimate spectator culture. Subservience was required, radical participation, radical inclusivity (thinking of others) was not. You might be scared of strong messaging- a common thema to both scenarios- but the messages are about as opposi…

>really prefer a world where we can be heads up, aware of each other, aware of the world about us, casually participatory with each other as we go about. It's such a waste of personage, of society, when people keep to themselves, wrap themselves in their tight knit world, shut themselves off to the world

Very well said, but far more than a mere preference, I feel that interconnection is the engine driving our cultural and societal evolution and progress. Our paradigm shifts occur at the crossroads where different cultures and ideas freely intermingle. This is why the encroachment of mass surveillance will lead to a cul-de-sac for humanity. Radical inclusivity leads to the opposite of 1984...

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