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World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

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61–70 of 198 posts

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#61
post #19

They cite environmental and transparency concerns, but somehow I believe it's more about control and ensuring the continuation of the debt based fiat systems. I have a litmus test I use when discussing global financial politics with friends - "What were the main factors you think lead to Ghaddafi's killing?"

It may be but what is your litmus test about? Can you elaborate on it?

The public justification for killing Gaddafi is 'stopping the imminent genocide', which by the way, he literally declared he was about to commit.

But the real smart people who have the special knowledge know that it was obviously >.

The thing is, geopolitics is messy and there are quite a number of 'factors' many of them true to some extent. The Gulf tribal leaders absolutely hated him and they (i.e. Qatar) lent their special forces more or less as 'personal vendetta' than anything.

There are definitely arguments about Oil and related contracts - but Gaddaffi through the diplomacy of his son was well on his way to 'public reconciliation' to the point where there was a lot of money being made there, and it's entirely doubtful that some new, unknown clan would make it any easier for Westerners to make money.

If there were an obvious and very popular contender for power who was on the precipice of uniting the nation and he was already tacit 'backed by the west' - then you could make the argument that the intervention was on the style of the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran, but this really wasn't that situation.

The question says more about the person asking it than the answer.

The real question to ask someone when they are talking about 'Bitcoin' is how much Bitcoin (or other crypto) do you own? Because I find it's like talking to people in Amway or Scientology.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#62
post #36

Other random bitcoin concerns (apart from the environmental ones): - How about people stop accepting laundered bitcoins first and foremost? - Any bitcoins that have provably been involved in illegal stuff - Any monero/whathaveyou that come from exchanges that accept bitcoin that have received Bitcoins that were involved in illegal stuff - Will bitcoin still have value when quantum computers are around?

I'm pretty much the opposite of a bitcoin fan, but I think if you replaced "bitcoin" with "dollars" in your comment you would see that it sounds a bit weird. I bet most dollars have been involved in shady business at some point during their life. With bitcoin you have a better chance at figuring this fact out I guess. Regarding quantum computers: Quantum computers are not known to be exponentially faster at hashing t…

But quantum computer can break currently used Public-Key Algorithms, like ECDSA, which is used by Bitcoin.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#63
post #6

>"While the government did approach us for assistance on Bitcoin, this is not something the World Bank can support given the environmental and transparency shortcomings," they added. Environmental as the #1 concern? Bitcoin's enegery:market-cap ratio - a proxy for energy vs. value to humans - is >300x better than an airline & 60x better than JP Morgan & 20x better than google's. https://twitter.com/Okcoin/status/1403…

The absolute figures are bitcoin uses about the equivalent of Sweden’s energy consumption every year. Renewable energy isn’t free and should be replacing legacy sources, not being used to do pretend work. Environmental is a huge factor.

> The absolute figures are bitcoin uses about the equivalent of Sweden’s energy consumption every year.

Even using those sources I believe it's "electricity" consumption not "energy" consumption.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#64
post #6

>"While the government did approach us for assistance on Bitcoin, this is not something the World Bank can support given the environmental and transparency shortcomings," they added. Environmental as the #1 concern? Bitcoin's enegery:market-cap ratio - a proxy for energy vs. value to humans - is >300x better than an airline & 60x better than JP Morgan & 20x better than google's. https://twitter.com/Okcoin/status/1403…

> Bitcoin's enegery:market-cap ratio

This is absolutely the most contrived number I've ever seen put into the service of excuses for bitcoin's ghastly energy consumption. This is actuallly a new one on me.

It's especially good since "market cap" of a crypto is a made-up marketing number that tells you nothing about the price or its likely movements - it is, literally, the last speculative trading spot price multiplied by the number of coins someone thinks are in circulation.

A billion putative dollars of market cap can disappear in five minutes when the price goes down. Where did all that value go? Nowhere, it was imaginary.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#65

Countries that use the USD for their official currency, and are not a part of the US, have a broken financial system. They need to fix that to a point where they can implement their own sovereign currency.

Maybe it's not as simple as you think? These countries generally chose to use USD, do you really believe that they all just made a stupid decision with no upsides?

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#66
post #19

They cite environmental and transparency concerns, but somehow I believe it's more about control and ensuring the continuation of the debt based fiat systems. I have a litmus test I use when discussing global financial politics with friends - "What were the main factors you think lead to Ghaddafi's killing?"

Was it along the lines of, trying to convince OPEC to stop accepting dollars?

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#67
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute figures are bitcoin uses about the equivalent of Sweden’s energy consumption every year. Renewable energy isn’t free and should be replacing legacy sources, not being used to do pretend work. Environmental is a huge factor.

Can you make me a list of real vs pretend work so I can base my ethical decisions on it?

It's not a comprehensive list, but a good rule of thumb is that any computer spinning around computing a number that no one cares about the value of is pretend work.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#68

The US uses the dollar as a weapon and it controls the world bank. So it makes sense that they won't help to de-dollarize the world.

One random (small) country adopting bitcoin doesn't do that.

Ongoing geopolitical events on the other hand (e.g. rise of china, changing energy geopolitics) probably do a lot more to reduce usa's influence

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#69
post #33

We keep talking about how tech should be used to make a net positive change yet we allow this glorified linked list that has 0 real world benefits after a decade to get a pass because some man children run around promising it's the future.

I think it's censorship resistant and permissionless properties make it pretty impressive.

Sanction resistant too.

Re: World Bank rejects El Salvador request for Bitcoin help

#70
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value Bitcoin provides to humans is about more than the transactions. The value is primarily about security as a store of wealth. This is why I use market cap.

The value it provides is a Ponzi scheme for elites and lumpens to quickly make money, nothing else.

Hope you try to avoid allowing jadedness to cloud your interpretation of & openness to reality.
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