Live data from Hacker News

Europe's Software Problem

berthub.eu

61–70 of 585 posts

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#61
> If Europe wants to have its citizens (and companies) rely significantly on European-operated software, it has no choice but to develop better software,

NEVER in my 30+ years as a user of computer networks or communication programs I have seen the "better software" win. It has always been the most marketing, the most shady ethics, or anything else that lead to the strongest network effect.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#62

"Since all communication platforms are now free, the only way to get people to use competitive European software and services is to also offer these for free, and to make sure this technology is very good and compelling" I have never seen a government or any regulation deliver anything "good and compelling", or take any other action to "make sure" someone else delivers it.

[flagged]

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#63

United States' platforms on Chinese hardware sounds like everybody's problem. Except for China which has both. To be honest, it would be nice for Europe to handle the platforms and for the United States to go back to radical innovation. The times of emacs, vi, Bell labs, Xerox and pushing the computing medium to the edge.

All the FAANGs are American companies, and they've all been pushing the boundaries. What do you feel America has lost in this respect?

The US and California in particular lost it's appeal. 20 years ago it was the dream destination for many. Now, even some Indians steer away. I don't know a single European who would want to live in the US. Not even from Eastern Europe. The go-to place is London, Berlin, Stockholm, Amsterdam, etc.

FAANGS were started 1-2 decades ago. In past 5 years the trend changed. Ask PG. He will never move back to the US.

And no, Texas will never be the next big innovation hub.

Living in the US is dull and uninspiring if you lived away for long. Also the missing social net makes the situation worse and worse every year.

"America" is losing the talent pool.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile the majority of computers use open source software as their OS....

But not the majority of people

Depends on what you consider a "user". You're a user of this website too, presumably running on Linux.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#65

This problem will never get fixed. The author forgot to mention in depth the main reason why EU isn't even in the game: culture. In order to be innovative and compete, we need very flexible working laws, people with a big growth mindset, a less relaxing lifestyle and AMBITIOUS people. A lot of third world countries are years ahead of the whole EU continent in that aspect. I say this because I live in Europe for the q…

You just broadly painted all of Europe as lazy. Maybe you should reconsider your attitude?

> Corporations and regulations will just drive your small company out of the market no matter what

Has this happened to you?

Plenty of small business where I stand, and this lifestyle fits them perfectly, there is no desperation to survive. Not every business has to be about growth.

I think what you’re seeing is the result of policies that increase quality of life. So Germany has to import someone like you, from a third world country, that will accept the pay and have “ambition”. It goes both ways.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#66
post #39

PG has a related essay: Why Startups Condense in America http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html He actually has several essays on how to try to create a Silicon Valley in other geographic areas, but this seemed the most relevant. tldr: 1. The US Allows Immigration. 2. The US Is a Rich Country. 3. The US Is Not (Yet) a Police State. 4. American Universities Are Better. 5. You Can Fire People in America. 6. In America…

As a European, I do think he hits several marks correctly. But I don't at all understand point 10. If anything, it's been my experience that the US is more focused on people having "the right" education for the job. Could anyone elaborate on what he might possibly mean? (Also, I think point 4 is very field-specific. While the US may have a few institutions that are universally recognized as excellent, there are also…

> If anything, it's been my experience that the US is more focused on people having "the right" education for the job.

What are you thinking of here? Big US companies like Google will let you get a high-level job with no college education whatsoever. Most traditional European companies would not consider doing that.

> While the US may have a few institutions that are universally recognized as excellent

"a few institutions"? The US absolutely dominates the top universities. You have to go down to the 40s to find your first EU institution.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#67
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'd appreciate such a law, I doubt it would work in practice. First-party can turn it into a cat-and-mouse game where they'll introduce some minor changes that require third-party apps to be updated over and over again. We've seen this happen with some education related app / system in Sweden where people built a better third-party app / client. Finding a decent, enforceable solution this way is certainly not t…

Mandate that every API version that introduces breaking changes remains available for X years. Big companies do this anyway because there always are people using outdated first-party apps.

> Mandate that every API version that introduces breaking changes remains available for X years.

Then you've just crippled the ability to deliver new functionality at a rapid pace without huge associated support costs.

no?

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#68

This problem will never get fixed. The author forgot to mention in depth the main reason why EU isn't even in the game: culture. In order to be innovative and compete, we need very flexible working laws, people with a big growth mindset, a less relaxing lifestyle and AMBITIOUS people. A lot of third world countries are years ahead of the whole EU continent in that aspect. I say this because I live in Europe for the q…

In addition, people now tend to equal consumer services in tech to “innovation”, but if you look closely a disproportionate amount of the real innovation in energy, industry, food production, finance and “real word tech” happens in Europe - because a lot of people have the freedom to do things that matter with their lives and not spend their time being a growth hacker.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order to be innovative and compete, we need very flexible working laws, people with a big growth mindset, a less relaxing lifestyle and AMBITIOUS people. The US has those things and it's turning into a "third world country with a Gucci belt" (as someone put it) for everyone except the 1% and the indispensable knowledge worker class that can't be automated away or juiced dry for all the productivity they are capa…

GP's phrasing is wrong but there is a point there - it is much easier to achieve success and then regulate and distribute its benefits than to go the other way round. I am not a fan of unbridled capitalism a la the USA and fully agree that more countries should strive to reach European levels of worker and civil rights... however, there is validity to the statement that Europe is currently coasting along on the spoil…

[deleted]

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#70
Tech innovation, once it has resulted in sufficient financial advantage becomes a 'winner takes all' game, where the people that won the previous round have a better than average chance of winning all subsequent rounds as well until there is some outside imposed limit. They are either able to throw more resources at the same problem or they can afford to buy out the successes elsewhere and claim them as their own.

The same argument could be made about the European film scene (check out how many Hollywood blockbusters are remakes of great European movies), the European music scene and the European literature scene to greater or lesser degree.

But you know what? It's fine. There is plenty of quality software in Europe, and as long as those companies don't get bought out by the handful of runaway American successes they can grow and do just fine. They tend to be better at customer service, they tend to be better at addressing multi-lingual markets at an earlier stage in their development than their American counterparts and they are active in important fields.

The thing that America excels at is advertising and simply making money. But there is more than that in this world.

Post reply on HN