Why no-one in America was arrested as part of Operation Ironside • Hacker News Board

Re: Why no-one in America was arrested as part of Operation Ironside

#61

Post by lugged » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 5:44 AM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #33

lugged wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app was a plant, preloaded on mobile phones you'd only buy for criminal acts, so probably not much more than 251. For the record, they almost certainly overreached elsewhere but imo, what was done with this app is pretty fair and balanced. It's much better than requiring backdoors in apps or services. It's almost like real police work.

> preloaded on mobile phones you'd only buy for criminal acts Is this a thing? A specific type of prepaid phone or maybe a “laundered” sim card?

Basically, you'd buy them by the dozen, app preinstalled, sim and data probably optional.

Re: Why no-one in America was arrested as part of Operation Ironside

#62

Post by ViViDboarder » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #31

It's time to weaken the legal privacy protections of users, but strengthen the technical protection (encryption) and strengthen the requirement to notify users whose data has been accessed. I'd like so see police able to access any unencrypted data for any court sanctioned purpose, but within 6 weeks I'd like the owner of that data notified that the police have used their data and the reasons why. Then people can vot…

> I'd like so see police able to access any unencrypted data for any court sanctioned purpose

They already can. That’s what warrants are for. Why should privacy protections be weakened?

Re: Why no-one in America was arrested as part of Operation Ironside

#63

Post by ticktock » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

No one from the US was arrested because the US just wanted to eliminate the competition internationally.

Re: Why no-one in America was arrested as part of Operation Ironside

#64

Post by gamblor956 » Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #58

voxic11 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the parallel construction worked then we wouldn't know it had occurred. There are multiple officials on record saying parallel construction is a widespread practice and "used every day". > The two senior DEA officials, who spoke on behalf of the agency but only on condition of anonymity, said the process is kept secret to protect sources and investigative methods. "Parallel construction is a law enforcement techni…

Yes, I don't doubt at the federal level that parallel construction works better than it does at the local level, because the feds have jurisdiction over bigger crimes. Drug crimes, involving multinational criminal organizations, generally involve many participants and transactions, and you only need to break 1 participant in a conspiracy to unravel the whole thing. (And more importantly, due to the many overlapping c…

I am continually amazed at HN's ability to reject reality in favor of some imaginary world that doesn't actually exist.

In the real world parallel construction is not common. The cops simply don't have the resources to pursue it in the vast majority of cases at the local level, and many cases get tossed because of tainted evidence. Hell, plenty of manslaughter and gang cases get tossed because of tainted evidence.

At the federal level, parallel construction is more common, because the feds (a) have more resources to pursue alternative avenues of investigation, and (b) have jurisdiction over the types of crimes which lend themselves to having multiple avenues of investigation, like organized crime.

But on an absolute basis, even at the federal level parallel construction is still rare, because it is invariable easier to just pursue different charges. Al Capone, for example, was brought down by tax fraud. More recently, many federal charges against El Chapo were dropped because the evidence was tainted...but it was irrelevant because they just pursued a dozen different crimes instead.

Re: Why no-one in America was arrested as part of Operation Ironside

#65

Post by boomboomsubban » Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 12:43 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #64

gamblor956 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I don't doubt at the federal level that parallel construction works better than it does at the local level, because the feds have jurisdiction over bigger crimes. Drug crimes, involving multinational criminal organizations, generally involve many participants and transactions, and you only need to break 1 participant in a conspiracy to unravel the whole thing. (And more importantly, due to the many overlapping c…

I am continually amazed at HN's ability to reject reality in favor of some imaginary world that doesn't actually exist. In the real world parallel construction is not common. The cops simply don't have the resources to pursue it in the vast majority of cases at the local level, and many cases get tossed because of tainted evidence. Hell, plenty of manslaughter and gang cases get tossed because of tainted evidence. At…

>I am continually amazed at HN's ability to reject reality in favor of some imaginary world that doesn't actually exist

Your claim is just absurd. In a successful use of parallel construction, the defendant and possibly even the prosecution should be unaware that it even occurred. Your experience as a lawyer is not a good reason to expect it isn't happening.

And though I agree that local use alone is likely rare, one of the common methods is for a federal agency to pass information to a smaller law enforcement agency. Additionally, using illegally collected evidence as a justification to pursue someone for an unrelated crime would still be parallel construction.