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Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

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Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#61

Post by zozbot234 »

hnedeotes wrote: post #56
naruvimama wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah, western countries are known for having about 50% of their population relegated to an untouchable status without any chance of social mobility or partaking in the benefits and rituals of the other 50% - and not only in this life, it's for eternity.

Untouchable status is flat-out illegal in India, and the Indian government has gone to huge lengths to help former pariahs/untouchables (now properly called Dalit) improve their education and social status. To the point where the formerly privileged non-Dalit are now complaining that they don't get anywhere like the same attention from government and are at risk of being left by the wayside. These complaints might be overblown for sure, but the underlying efforts to redress these wrongs cannot be denied.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#62

Post by hnedeotes »

zozbot234 wrote: post #61
hnedeotes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, western countries are known for having about 50% of their population relegated to an untouchable status without any chance of social mobility or partaking in the benefits and rituals of the other 50% - and not only in this life, it's for eternity.

Untouchable status is flat-out illegal in India, and the Indian government has gone to huge lengths to help former pariahs/untouchables (now properly called Dalit) improve their education and social status. To the point where the formerly privileged non-Dalit are now complaining that they don't get anywhere like the same attention from government and are at risk of being left by the wayside. These complaints might be…

This was not to say that those things were left unattended or no effort has been made, it was in the context of the parent comment - dharmic definitions, and ideas, are fallible as everything else and can be corrupted and lead to the same or worse outcomes and they can mingle good ideas (Vegetarianism) with bad ideas (Casts).

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#64

Post by blueblisters »

astatine wrote: post #7

This is a theme that will apply in a variety of different areas, well beyond Silicon Valley. There was a sense in the late couple of decades that India will become a faithful follower of US practices (if not policies) with its easily accessible population for everything from movies to ecommerce, food chains to apparel brands and more. The implied sense was that the rapidly growing middle-class would want to mimic (or…

Well to be fair even if India wants to play by different rules, it's important to be consistent when making policies. Social media isn't a new thing in India and the recent clampdown suggests that the government no longer has the most influential voice in social media channels. I also don't think Twitter cares too much about India because the moderation is pretty awful, but when it does moderate some powerful politicians, all hell breaks loose. A similar thing happened in Nigeria, where Twitter censoring the President caused the government to block the platform. It's inconsistent and makes the government look weak.

The recent intermediary rules are vague and broad enough that even independent news publishers appear to be targeted. The rules are probably unenforceable too, going by current law. Similarly, e-commerce rules that apparently target Amazon to "help" small traders don't seem to apply to domestic e-commerce marketplaces.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#65

Post by nickik »

chewz wrote: post #39
EvilEy3 wrote: post #18

Lmao, SV will know first hand what it means "don't play with fire". They thought they had another US, well they helped create another China. When US will learn that only Europe can be considered their ally in this world?

> When US will learn that only Europe can be considered their ally in this world? For Europe China is now largest trading partner. And European politicians will forever remember that private US companies banned acting president of the USA from the platform. Europe is also taking steps to get rid of Facebook, Twitter, Google and other SV darlings.

> Europe is also taking steps to get rid of Facebook, Twitter, Google and other SV darlings.

As a European. This is a big lol.

Just because the EU, German and French bureaucrats occasionally go on a powertrip and make a big huha about some service or another doesn't mean they are actually going to get rid of it. And just because politicians often bluster about some service or another, often spurned on by local lobbyists doesn't mean they will replace it, rather that they might invest a couple of million into a replacement that then instantly fizzles.

The German press lead by Springer spent years and year mobilizing their politicians against 'Google News' and the laws that came out of that were 10x worse for Users then anything Google would ever do. In the end Google News is still there and even if it wasn't, its hardly a relevant service.

So if it takes a decade of blustering and legal battles to maybe get few cent out of google for google news, how long do you think it would take to 'get rid of' them.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#66

Post by naruvimama »

cptsmrk wrote: post #55
naruvimama wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a promoter of freedom before the 1960s and 1970s That would be ironic considering that they had not completely freed many of their colonies yet.

Sure, we've often failed to live up to our values. One of the baddest-ass diplomatic moments in modern history was in the 50s when India's UN ambassador read the US Declaration of Independence in protest of its support for colonial regimes in the name of anti-Communism. But the hypocrisy of the west in applying those values doesn't mean they aren't worthwhile or worth fighting for.

Which is precisely the argument.

Exporting and enforcing values that you do not yourself follow.

Do as I say not what I do.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#67

Post by naruvimama »

hnedeotes wrote: post #56
naruvimama wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah, western countries are known for having about 50% of their population relegated to an untouchable status without any chance of social mobility or partaking in the benefits and rituals of the other 50% - and not only in this life, it's for eternity.

The class system or castas was very much part of Europe.

The monopoly of the church on God and crown was precisely why it was imported into India by the British to consolidate their power.

"Caste" is often used to white wash the Islamic and Christian colonization of India that lasted for a 1000 years, that reduced the richest nation to one of the poorest.

This poverty creation machine that the British colonization is not merely an effect of exploitation or greed, it was very much driven by the same racist and Christian supremacy that drove the nazis.

The "dalits" are very much the biggest victims of colonization.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#68

Post by zozbot234 »

hnedeotes wrote: post #62
zozbot234 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Untouchable status is flat-out illegal in India, and the Indian government has gone to huge lengths to help former pariahs/untouchables (now properly called Dalit) improve their education and social status. To the point where the formerly privileged non-Dalit are now complaining that they don't get anywhere like the same attention from government and are at risk of being left by the wayside. These complaints might be…

This was not to say that those things were left unattended or no effort has been made, it was in the context of the parent comment - dharmic definitions, and ideas, are fallible as everything else and can be corrupted and lead to the same or worse outcomes and they can mingle good ideas (Vegetarianism) with bad ideas (Casts).

Untouchability was never a dharmic definition or idea. The Vedic texts talk about there being four proper "callings" in life but make no mention of any social outcaste status, and the elaborate system of caste was a result of unrelated developments, similar to the ones which created the rigid social systems of the West in the Middle-Ages.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#69

Post by naruvimama »

random314 wrote: post #45
naruvimama wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This post is an example of the wild fantasies indulged by the followers of hindutva where India is forever on the precipice of taking over the world intellectually and to an extent territorially. In this future liberalism will be consigned to the garbage can and ethno nationalism and fascism centered on Hinduism will reign supreme. The popularity of yoga is hilariously touted as a precursor of things to come. The pri…

This was in response to the OP about western values.

Are you not sick and tired of a colonial propaganda of attributing everything to the west.

I pity people who actually believe Renaissance or Industrial revolution was something that happened overnight.

Even as the "liberal" elite and evangelists try to force their agenda on the rest of the world, their own homesteads are turning more dharmic.

Re: Silicon Valley thought India was its future, now things have changed

#70

Post by zozbot234 »

naruvimama wrote: post #67
hnedeotes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, western countries are known for having about 50% of their population relegated to an untouchable status without any chance of social mobility or partaking in the benefits and rituals of the other 50% - and not only in this life, it's for eternity.

The class system or castas was very much part of Europe. The monopoly of the church on God and crown was precisely why it was imported into India by the British to consolidate their power. "Caste" is often used to white wash the Islamic and Christian colonization of India that lasted for a 1000 years, that reduced the richest nation to one of the poorest. This poverty creation machine that the British colonization is…

> that reduced the richest nation to one of the poorest.

Very good point, BTW. You're not going to find a rigid social stratification system in a rich society. Stratification takes over as an outcome of societal collapse, as people are reduced to fighting over scraps of their former wealth and will cling to any form of seeming stability, however damaging in the long term. This is exactly what occurred in the West of late antiquity and the dark ages, culminating in the early middle ages.

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