A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin • Hacker News Board

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#61

Post by chasd00 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:01 PM UTC

h2odragon wrote: post #25

A farmer I knew had run the numbers on the cycle time for unloading grain wagons at harvest time; paying neighborhood kids $3/hr (in 1982 or so) to dance on top of the grain as it drained paid off. There were bars to grab on the top of the wagons so it wasn't deeply dangerous, but it certainly got exciting. His kids were the ones driving the wagon trains from the fields to the silos. That was even more exciting. No i…

i use to help my uncle bale hay. I would drive the truck and pull the trailer in the pasture while he and my cousin loaded the bales. I was around 9 or 10 and it was the coolest thing i had ever done ( at the time ) hah.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#62

Post by bontaq » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

Baeocystin wrote: post #38

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #18

Friendly reminder that people who deal with "unsafe by office worker standards" stuff day in and day out do not shovel money at you without critical thought just because you can portray your product as improving safety. These guys aren't wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the thought of a dangerous job. They're finding a way to be careful and mitigate the risks of the worst outcomes and then getting…

Speaking as someone who knows farmers- they do, in fact, consider going into the silo a dangerous task, because everyone knows some family that had someone die because of it. They do it anyway, because it needs to get done, but they are quite aware of the risk. Everything on a farm has to earn its keep in terms of ROI, and so will this robot. It may or may not be cost effective, and we'll see. But please don't downpl…

It sure seems that way, across all the youtube farming channels I watch, one thing that ties them together is they do not like going into the silo and do consider it unsafe. I have no idea what OP is talking about besides their imagination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7oxLIP1RRo here's a whole episode about grain bin rescue training. They raised $60,000 for first responders in their grain bin safety campaign.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#63

Post by gcheong » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

yupper32 wrote: post #60

gcheong wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you have to gear up, which takes time, and maybe you only have to go in for a little bit to clear something, and also now you are tethered which may hinder your mobility and could in itself become a hazard. I recall something I read about people who work in high places like antenna towers would often rather do away with the harness if safety regulations allowed as they find it tedious to be unhooking and rehooki…

> I recall something I read about people who work in high places like antenna towers would often rather do away with the harness if safety regulations allowed as they find it tedious to be unhooking and rehooking every few steps up the ladder. As a rock climber I find this comment absurd if true. Unless the number is extremely small. I also find rigging a multi-pitch anchor and keeping ropes untangled tedious. But gu…

Life is full of absurdities apparently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO6YiImtMXM

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#64

Post by bombcar » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #54

rsync wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"To them it's no different than trying not to land on your ass trying to pin an implement to the tractor in the mud. Going into a silo or grain hopper is not a dangerous task to them." I have been on HN since 2012 and this comment is the dumbest shit I have ever seen posted here. By a fair margin. If you climb into an enclosed space with both burial and dust explosion hazards and your internal alarms aren't going off…

I agree. The first paragraph of the article contains their reasoning behind creating it. An experienced farmer asked them to create something so that he (and his children) never had to expose themselves to that risk again. They know it is dangerous, they may manage that risk but you are a fool if you think they would prefer to run the risk rather than find a safer alternative.

They’re already running the risk vs other safer alternatives - even if just smaller silos.

Sure if you give it away for free they’ll be there - but if you’re trying to sell it you need to convince them (or more likely get it illegal to not use one).

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#65

Post by bombcar » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #44

Baeocystin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who knows farmers- they do, in fact, consider going into the silo a dangerous task, because everyone knows some family that had someone die because of it. They do it anyway, because it needs to get done, but they are quite aware of the risk. Everything on a farm has to earn its keep in terms of ROI, and so will this robot. It may or may not be cost effective, and we'll see. But please don't downpl…

The alternatives suggested on [1] (from a different comment) are much cheaper: long poles, a safety harness, lock tag. If farmers aren't already using those, why would they buy this? [1] https://agfax.com/2019/02/18/grain-bins-sudden-death-4-ways-...

> Consequences. Of the 22,215 passenger vehicle occupants killed in 2019, 47% were not wearing seat belts.

And I highly doubt half of those people were driving old cars with no seat belts.

If people can’t be arsed to use a simple safety tool it’s going to be a hard sell to build a robot.

Better would be to build a silo that has safety features built in and make it competitive on price.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#66

Post by phkahler » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #51

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #18

Friendly reminder that people who deal with "unsafe by office worker standards" stuff day in and day out do not shovel money at you without critical thought just because you can portray your product as improving safety. These guys aren't wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the thought of a dangerous job. They're finding a way to be careful and mitigate the risks of the worst outcomes and then getting…

"To them it's no different than trying not to land on your ass trying to pin an implement to the tractor in the mud. Going into a silo or grain hopper is not a dangerous task to them." I have been on HN since 2012 and this comment is the dumbest shit I have ever seen posted here. By a fair margin. If you climb into an enclosed space with both burial and dust explosion hazards and your internal alarms aren't going off…

Um yeah, because when I was a kid my grandfather let us ride in the grain collection cart. That was basically a large hopper on wheels with a funnel shape on the bottom to feed the grain elevator in the barn. We rode out to the fields. When the harvesters were full they'd come and "pour" a load into the wagon with kids in it. Buried my brothers from the waist down IIRC. Fun stuff. Safe and smart thing to let kids do? Nope.

There are a lot of people with lower standards for safety like the PP indicated. They're not all wrong.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#67

Post by jcims » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #18

Friendly reminder that people who deal with "unsafe by office worker standards" stuff day in and day out do not shovel money at you without critical thought just because you can portray your product as improving safety. These guys aren't wringing their hands and clutching their pearls over the thought of a dangerous job. They're finding a way to be careful and mitigate the risks of the worst outcomes and then getting…

I've seen lots of people calling OPs statement stupid, but nobody actually countering the primary claim in the very first sentence.

The likelihood that your rank and file farmer is going to drop $5K on this thing when they know in the back of their mind that every time it fails they are going to have to get back into the grain bin anyway, is very very low.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#68

Post by mustacheemperor » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #54

rsync wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"To them it's no different than trying not to land on your ass trying to pin an implement to the tractor in the mud. Going into a silo or grain hopper is not a dangerous task to them." I have been on HN since 2012 and this comment is the dumbest shit I have ever seen posted here. By a fair margin. If you climb into an enclosed space with both burial and dust explosion hazards and your internal alarms aren't going off…

I agree. The first paragraph of the article contains their reasoning behind creating it. An experienced farmer asked them to create something so that he (and his children) never had to expose themselves to that risk again. They know it is dangerous, they may manage that risk but you are a fool if you think they would prefer to run the risk rather than find a safer alternative.

There is a post on the front page of reddit[0] today about the risks of grain entrapment, and that thread is also full of people with firsthand experiences of friends or relatives dying on farms from it.

[0]https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/nwmect/til_t...

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#69

Post by bombcar » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #24

happytoexplain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first two sentences are pretty unfriendly. I'm not trying to be snide.

I don't think so - I got burned precisely by this -> people that work with danger regularly are actually used to it and do not faint or fall to you lap if you offer some marginal mitigation Sometimea even to their own detriment

A solution that removes some minor but commonly encountered inconvenience is an easier sell than one that removes a rare but fatal one.

So a setup that keeps the steering wheel cool even in the hot sun may sell better than a device that prevents the tractor from flipping over on you.

Re: A robot to replace the need for farmers to go inside the grain bin

#70

Post by bombcar » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

msrenee wrote: post #53

legitster wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preach. On the internet it's very easy for people to talk themselves into incredibly high standards for anything. But in real life most people are pretty astute at marginal trade-offs between risk and cost. While it may look like you have a product with no competitors that will save lives, your actual competitor is "being slightly more careful" and it's free and people still aren't buying that . You still have to jus…

Being slightly more careful doesn't really help in this situation. They are slightly more careful. The smart ones are very careful. It's intrinsically dangerous. Someone suggested a tag out system and that just makes it clear to me they don't understand the mechanics at hand. Why more of them don't wear a harness, tie off, and the buddy system, I don't know, but that's about the only real way you can recover if you g…

Being slightly more careful just is using the harness, etc. they don’t do it because it takes time and they’ve done this before and it’ll be fine this time.