I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#61

Post by wizzwizz4 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

ta2162 wrote: post #58

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no longer as socially-acceptable to bully strangers for being “weirdos”. Is that it? > Scene, hipster, emo, goth, etc. all but disappeared. Have you not noticed what's replaced these? We have hundreds of subcultures: weebs, dank memers, bronies, demoscene, lifehackers, outside, Bitcoin, competitive Pokémon… What you're seeing is a change in who you're bullying, not a change in reality.

>It's no longer as socially-acceptable to bully strangers for being “weirdos”. Is that it? Not at all. People/children still bully each other, always have, always will. Now they can easily bully each other through social media, relentlessly. >Have you not noticed what's replaced these? We have hundreds of subcultures: weebs, dank memers, bronies, demoscene, lifehackers, outside, Bitcoin, competitive Pokémon… What you…

> Something else is going on,

Large groups have broken into smaller groups because people are less required to be a part of a large group to be accepted.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#62

Post by filoleg » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:29 PM UTC

ta2162 wrote: post #29

Scene, hipster, emo, goth, etc. all but disappeared. Most of the people who would have fallen in one of the aforementioned groups a decade ago are now non-binary, gender fluid, etc. They found a way to tie their identity to their humanity so now it's bigoted to scoff and laugh at them. Have any social psychologists studied this phenomenon? It's a great defense mechanism that seems to be working quite well.

>Scene, hipster, emo, goth, etc. all but disappeared.

I don't know where you have been for over the past 5 years, but not only did some of those not disappear, they had a massive resurgence (in the US/Canada, at least).

"Emo rap" has been all the hotness over the past 5 years, just look at artists like Lil Uzi Vert or Frank Ocean. Skrillex, one of the most successful producers and artists of our time, went back to his original emo rock band and recorded a single with them to a wide applause. Goth-related discussions have seen continuous increase in numbers on social media.

>Most of the people who would have fallen in one of the aforementioned groups a decade ago are now non-binary, gender fluid, etc.

I don't see how those things are mutually exclusive. Plenty of non-binary/genderfluid/etc. people would count themselves as a part of those groups, just like cis/straight people would.

I will give it to you with scene and hipsters disappearing, but "hipster" as a term has been used almost always with negative connotations (as others in this thread have pointed out already the specifics of why people scoffed at "hipsters" as used the term as an insult). Even at the peak of popularity of that term, I don't recall almost anyone using it to refer to themselves, though this point is entirely subjective and anecdotal on my end.

The point you were trying to make would have been indeed interesting to look into, if the reality matched a bit closer with what you were claiming was happening to those emo/goth/etc. groups.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#63

Post by wearywanderer » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:35 PM UTC

ta2162 wrote: post #58

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no longer as socially-acceptable to bully strangers for being “weirdos”. Is that it? > Scene, hipster, emo, goth, etc. all but disappeared. Have you not noticed what's replaced these? We have hundreds of subcultures: weebs, dank memers, bronies, demoscene, lifehackers, outside, Bitcoin, competitive Pokémon… What you're seeing is a change in who you're bullying, not a change in reality.

>It's no longer as socially-acceptable to bully strangers for being “weirdos”. Is that it? Not at all. People/children still bully each other, always have, always will. Now they can easily bully each other through social media, relentlessly. >Have you not noticed what's replaced these? We have hundreds of subcultures: weebs, dank memers, bronies, demoscene, lifehackers, outside, Bitcoin, competitive Pokémon… What you…

> Something else is going on

Scenes require supporting media. In the age of print and broadcast, access to media was comparably limited. Consequently, the number of scenes was comparably limited. The "something" that happened was the general public learning how the internet could be used to easily publish media for as many scenes as people could think of. It's now feasible for individuals to globally publish media regardless of how many other people are interested in it.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#64

Post by MrLeap » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

I'm making a game around the pretense that people would enjoy watching someone do this online. It's cool that people are into it in person.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1537490/Tentacle_Typer/

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#65

Post by ziml77 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

strken wrote: post #42

pmoriarty wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not random. Someone in stereotypical metalhead attire is unlikely to be called a hipster for it, neither is someone dressed in punk fashion, nor a goth or a jock, etc... well, they won't by a anyone with half a clue as to what the identifying features of these subcultures are. The negativity comes from people assuming that hipsters think they're cool, but (according to their critics) they're not... it's kind of…

It's not exactly because they "think they're cool", it's because hipsters reject cheap mass-market consumer goods and embrace expensive one-off artsy goods, while simultaneously adopting poverty aesthetics like wearing old second hand clothes and recycling everything. They're seen, perhaps unfairly, as rich gentrifiers.

I don't see the contradiction between rejecting those mass-market items and wearing second-hand clothes. Everyone has different priorities of where to spend their money.

It could even be a matter of principles. Anything produced at scale, especially clothing, exploits cheap labor. That's something these people may want to avoid. It's also bad for the environment to buy cheaper items that will likely fail quickly, and if old clothes are still usable then why waste resources on new ones?

The holier-than-thou attitude that the other commenter mentioned is still what I believe is the reason for hipster hate. And it's not always unwarranted. If someone becomes a hipster because they want to feel superior, then that certainly does make them annoying.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#66

Post by wizzwizz4 » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:42 PM UTC

wearywanderer wrote: post #63

ta2162 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's no longer as socially-acceptable to bully strangers for being “weirdos”. Is that it? Not at all. People/children still bully each other, always have, always will. Now they can easily bully each other through social media, relentlessly. >Have you not noticed what's replaced these? We have hundreds of subcultures: weebs, dank memers, bronies, demoscene, lifehackers, outside, Bitcoin, competitive Pokémon… What you…

> Something else is going on Scenes require supporting media. In the age of print and broadcast, access to media was comparably limited. Consequently, the number of scenes was comparably limited. The "something" that happened was the general public learning how the internet could be used to easily publish media for as many scenes as people could think of. It's now feasible for individuals to globally publish media re…

I've changed my mind in favour of this explanation. I knew “the internet” had something to do with it, but I thought it was about socialisation; the cultural artefacts explanation neatly explains internet memes, too, so it's probably more right.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#67

Post by lostlogin » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #56

nrp wrote: post #40

“ After I posted, the message board thread’s climate changed immediately. Not unlike real life, people were complimentary and kind. Many people deleted their mean comments — one person was so embarrassed for threatening to smash my typewriter that he apologized to me, and then went through and started trying to make other haters apologize.” This is deeply familiar to me and is amazing to see in action. I regularly re…

It's truly amazing to me (in a bad way) how humans are on the internet. They don't seem to realize that other people are real people. There's something about a reply that snaps them out of it. I've seen it happen many times myself as well.

Something similar sometimes happens in heavy road traffic too I think.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#68

Post by MarcScott » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:47 PM UTC

I once had a blog post go a little bit viral on HN, Reddit, Twitter etc, years ago.

At first I was really worried about the negative comments, and tried to justify myself or make corrections. After 24 hours I was so numbed to it all, that I began to find the negative comments amusing.

One Reddit commenter called me a "Incompetent fuckbucket" and I enjoyed that phrase so much that I ended up screen capping it and using it in a couple of public talks.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#69

Post by parafactual » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

nrp wrote: post #40

“ After I posted, the message board thread’s climate changed immediately. Not unlike real life, people were complimentary and kind. Many people deleted their mean comments — one person was so embarrassed for threatening to smash my typewriter that he apologized to me, and then went through and started trying to make other haters apologize.” This is deeply familiar to me and is amazing to see in action. I regularly re…

I think it works less well on Twitter because of the constrained length of the replies. With, say, a few paragraphs, you can explain yourself well enough to garner sympathy. One lone sentence is just something else to dunk on.

Re: I am an object of internet ridicule, ask me anything (2013)

#70

Post by mr-wendel » Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #8

That's a great reminder that the internet is full of cowardly bullies. They don't actually want to understand things, they just want to tear other people down to make themselves feel better.

Hmm... I like how you center on "don't want to understand things". It's a LOT harder to hate something you understand, especially when it comes to people.

I'd quibble on the final part though: they do it not to make themselves feel better (that is simply not possible), but to justify feeling bad about themselves and not wanting to admit it. It's quite narcissistic.