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In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

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Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#61

Post by coryrc »

WalterBright wrote: post #56
coryrc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. One of the biggest values of seniority is being able to teach the same class every year. Why they don't standardize has everything to do with the kind of people who become teachers and what they want to be doing with their time.

> The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. Of course they do. I knew I was being buffaloed. Though the point stands that why don't they share lesson plans? Why do we need 3.7 million unique lesson plans? There ought to be plenty of off-the-shelf plans to use.

The teachers I know do start with standard lesson plans, but for reasons I don't understand they feel the need to customize them.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#62

Post by jimhefferon »

2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote: post #50
jimhefferon wrote: post #14

> thank you, thank you You are very welcome. Glad to help. :-) (I'll just say that the TeX Users Group is very interested in improving the PDFs that LaTeX outputs in this regard, and has projects in this direction. They are at https://www.tug.org .)

Just wanted to say my thanks as well, while I have not worked with one of your books, I have a lot of respect for people that choose to release the source of textbooks they created.

You are welcome. Have a look at https://hefferon.net for the other books.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#63

Post by detaro »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #59
detaro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History? Modern perspective on it is constantly evolving, especially on more recent bits, and there's plenty topics I'd rather have my kids being taught with a perspective from this century (E.g. to take my local German perspective, events surrounding WW2 and post-war development). Also, plenty things that happened while you were alive are History now. (remember, kids finishing high school now weren't born when 9/1…

> Languages: Languages change (German literally added a letter in the past decade, new words are created, how people speak changes, ...). If one learned German from a forty year old textbook the only problem related to that that you would experience in Germany would be that some people would think you were speaking rather more formally than expected. Learning it from an up to date text book isn't going to make you no…

Using a textbook with spellings that disagree with the dictionary in K-12 language education is going to be ... interesting. Not something you'd do if you can avoid it. And the bits talking about the GDR are going to be a bit out of place...

Can you use outdated material? Sure, but that's different than pretending it isn't outdated or that outdated material can't get in the way.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#64

Post by kwhitefoot »

coryrc wrote: post #60
kwhitefoot wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learnt arithmetic in the early sixties. 99x5 would be 9x5x10+9x5 = 450+45 = 495 Perhaps it helped that we all knew the 12 times tables. Is there some new magical way of doing long multiplication that is more effective and easier to understand?

999999*5 is far easier as 5000000-5 than 45+450+4500+... Are you really arguing that the latter is faster and more effective to do in your head?

Not at all. I didn't know we were discussing mental arithmetic.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#65

Post by coryrc »

WalterBright wrote: post #57
coryrc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely correct on your second point. But for the first point, as poor as research in education is, there have been improvements in educational methods. I read some examples about the Common Core mathematics pedagogy, prepared to be as angry as Feynman, but they were actually teaching kids how to do arithmetic the way I do (which is way better than New Math or brute force methods): 99x5 is 500-5 not 5+(4+5)…

There have certainly been changes in educational methods, but I doubt there are improvements. Math achievement has been flat for the last 50 years. The "new math" and "look-say" methods were largely invented to drive new textbook sales.

I think you should look into the complaints about common core; I think, if you're good at arithmetic (like I assume most of us programmers are), that you'll find the current methods an improvement over those and about as good as can be done by our grade-segregated, "no-child-left-behind", Prussian educational system.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#66

Post by coryrc »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #64
coryrc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

999999*5 is far easier as 5000000-5 than 45+450+4500+... Are you really arguing that the latter is faster and more effective to do in your head?

Not at all. I didn't know we were discussing mental arithmetic.

Even on paper it's far simpler

(1000000-1)*5 => 5000000-5 => 4999995

Learning to find these patterns early sets up students for having an easier time with algebra later. Algebra is just rearranging equations. I don't understand, but students do struggle with going from "12/3=?" to "3*X=12 solve for X". We can't keep failing so many students every year and expect our country to hold together.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#67

Post by caboteria »

coryrc wrote: post #61
WalterBright wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. Of course they do. I knew I was being buffaloed. Though the point stands that why don't they share lesson plans? Why do we need 3.7 million unique lesson plans? There ought to be plenty of off-the-shelf plans to use.

The teachers I know do start with standard lesson plans, but for reasons I don't understand they feel the need to customize them.

NIH is a powerful sentiment in many areas, not just tech.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#68

Post by mkingston »

WalterBright wrote: post #56
coryrc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. One of the biggest values of seniority is being able to teach the same class every year. Why they don't standardize has everything to do with the kind of people who become teachers and what they want to be doing with their time.

> The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. Of course they do. I knew I was being buffaloed. Though the point stands that why don't they share lesson plans? Why do we need 3.7 million unique lesson plans? There ought to be plenty of off-the-shelf plans to use.

Curriculum change is relatively frequent in some places. Different classes take to different material at different paces. Different resources are available to different schools and different classrooms (think science experiments). In the UK there are online platforms for purchasing and selling lesson plans. My partner has saved much time purchasing lesson plans from these platforms. They are available.

Teachers aren't paid very well in many places and, at least here, funds aren't made specifically available for purchase of lesson plans; teachers spend their own money buying lesson plans. It's easily worth it when there's a second income in your household. Perhaps not in places where teachers are very poorly paid and for those who are on a single income.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#69

Post by treeman79 »

WalterBright wrote: post #44
burkaman wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever talked to any of these people you're laughing at? Maybe there is some nuance or background you're not aware of. I'm not a teacher, but I think often when they talk about old textbooks, the issue is that they are physically falling apart, not just that they were published a long time ago. These books are in continuous use by children, so you can't compare it to a book you've had on your shelf for 40 year…

I understand that textbooks fall apart and need replacement. I'm just talking about the complaints that they are outdated. The complaint I constantly hear from teachers is they work their fingers to the bone preparing lesson plans. I ask why are they making them from scratch, why not share? and don't get a response. > Every state, district, individual school might have its own rules about what can and must be taught,…

Yes. My wife had dealt with this nonsense for years. She was ready to quit her school and the major negotiation point was reusing lessons from prior year. School finally relented.

Re: In Praise of Open Source Textbooks

#70

Post by Koshkin »

dehrmann wrote: post #30
WalterBright wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see. Science? Nope. History? Nope. Exercise? Nope. Reading? Nope. Writing? Nope. Foreign languages? Nope. Current events? Yup. Just bring a newspaper to class.

> Foreign languages This reminds me of how Wheelock's Latin is the introductory Latin textbook. It's 65 years old and still in use.

Well, Latin is an exception, being one of the “dead” languages (which no longer evolve).
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