What the article is saying is that there are group benefits to working together and that they speculate that the traders in America did better than the traders in Europe because they worked together. Most comments I read on Hacker News that say that working from home is better measure a single individual’s output or that of a group that has worked together for a period of time. There may well be studies that show tha…
I would be interested in knowing how much a WFH preference correlates with how much engineering teams work together. As I have never worked for an engineering team that did anything other than parcel out work and expect people to go and do it. Yes, there was some pair programming for tough parts and we do architecture together, but as a general rule I don't meaningfully talk to any other engineers for completing my f…
Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
61–70 of 72 posts
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
WFH is an instant 13-20% raise for most people because they're not compensated for the commute. The same economic effect that results in SWEs being paid well above minimum wage will also result in widespread remote work. If you like socializing you can still do that, in fact you can do more of it since you're not spending an hour or two every day in a car, alone.
I don't know where you live but you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side. And there are people who likes to physically separate their personal life from their work life. And I'm a pre-pandemic remot…
WFH in general, now? Overton window. It's probably our one and only opportunity to shift it to include WFH as a standard practice in companies. Before, remote opportunities were very scarce, and were mostly tied around contracting. The pandemic briefly normalized WFH, but there's plenty of interests - powerful interests - gearing to get back to office work as soon as legally allowed. WFH enthusiasts try to counter that pressure, in a desperate attempt to make WFH stick.
> you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side
Yeah, but even for the most environmentally conscious, personal time is still the most scarce commodity. Commuting by bus or bicycle is better than by car, but no commute at all is better than any of this. Public transport lets you make partial use of commute time; lack of commute gives you that time back.
And then not having to commute opens up geographical flexibility - you can suddenly work for a company in a different city, or in a different country. This is a well-covered topic, but there's another flip side to it, which makes some WFH people "radical": if their company pulls the plug on WFH now, it'll severely mess up their lives.
Personal example: I've been contracting remotely for a foreign company (started pre-pandemic), and due to various reasons, that contract got turned into FTE in a local company... with offices 400km from where I live. One which didn't, until pandemic, practice remote work. So I'm keenly tracking any and all discussions about work policies, because if they were to return to pre-pandemic policies, I'd have to uproot my life or change jobs. And I don't want to change my job, I really like the team and the work. So you can imagine I'm sensitive about this.
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#63it differentiates three key aspects of work: the continuous information exchange, the atmosphere of in-person gatherings and the value of seeing beyond the personal scope.
in my personal experience in FOSS inspired evironments (like a Linux distribution) these can be achieved well with a balanced mix of on-site physical collaboration and remote work.
specifically large chat rooms serve as water coolers, or in the article coffee exchanges. mailing lists work well for technical exchange. VCS in combination with the other two works well for disciplined collaboration and preparation of consensus --- or the identification of divergent topics.
and those divergent topics are the ones where physical collaboration shines, with moderator support where needed. TIL about humming and I love it.
in total the first three, group chat water coolers, mailing list style thought exchanges, a disciplined review-enabled document collaboration, reduce the need for and value add of physical in-office presence I dare to claim by an order of magnitude.
agreed, this needs a breed of collaborators who express themselves in writing, chat, mail, documents are _written_. however that can be learned, no?
I hope companies make an informed an balanced decision moving back to the office intelligently.
and on a tangent I hope and pray MS teams gets usable chat rooms, and better threaded message support. Office has collaborative editing, change tracking. a decent group chat is missing, and imnsho that's the life blood of remote.
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#64There are 2 specific things it seems to me to bring up: domain knowledge and 'tribal' rituals.
There's no doubt in my mind that domain knowledge-sharing has suffered while I've been WFH: I started a new job during the pandemic, and it's been really hard to pick-up all the unknown-unknowns.
But this is a practical problem that can be overcome with the correct mindset and good tools. Instead of picking-up this essential work information in a discussion by the coffee-brewer, we simply need to be better at documenting what a new employee needs to know; we need to be self-aware of how we share knowledge and how it disseminates in an organization.
In other words, the practical things that the article finds are lacking in WFH can be fixed if we want to.
The other special element is the 'tribal' rituals, the adrenaline and team-spirit. Now even though that's sometimes an element in programming - for instance hackdays - the atmosphere in a bank trading floor is totally separate to 99% of the rest of workers' experience.
Probably a lot of things have changed since the 1990s, but I spent a lot of time with bankers in the City of London around that time (my brother worked at a bar there), and the 'tribal' aspect of these people was obvious in their behavior both in the office and socially. So I'm not at all surprised to hear that they performed differently while working separately in their homes (although I also note the authors don't strictly quantify what they mean by "performed better").
For the record, I'd rather continue to WFH but doubt it will be possible as the 'normal' takes over again.
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#65Please do give it a solid read. This isn't just another "remote work vs. offices" screed, not even hardly.
One point that many WFH enthusiasts (I am one) tend to miss (I prove myself the exeption) is that telecommunications actually amplifies the power of locality, in a sort of perverse paradox. The logic operates somewhat akin to Amdahl's law of computer parallelisation, in which the degree of parallelisation is limited by the unparallelisable portion of processing. For remote work, the limiting factor is the obligate localised functions, or the functions in which local access is superior to remote.
Tett's essay addresses several of these, most especially the difficult-to-capture, difficult-to-engineer incidental communications. Water-cooler chats, conversations overheard down the corridor, incidental meetings in tea rooms or canteens or lavatories, car pools, shared lunches. It's why Steve Jobs designed the Pixar studios with a centralised bank of washrooms. Being in a space, crossing paths with people, being familiar with their faces or voices, can be useful.
(It's also often not so, especially where both dissimilar and incompatible activities are placed proximate to one another. But the opportunity exists.)
And in a work environment where all the remote-comms tools are excellent and as good as possible, the temas working in proximity will still have the advantages afforded by localised contact. They'll also benefit from activities which cannot be provided remotely (though those may also substitute for services which might be provided at home or locally to a distributed workforce). Still, though, since Adam Smith and before, the power of cities and concentrations of activity to support a richer, more complex, more nuanced, and more specialised set of activities has been recognised. And telecoms simply cannot answer all of those needs, especially where physical presence of people, equipment, and/or activity are required.
Even if telecoms could do so, it would have to be conscious and aware of the affordances it is being called on to replace, and the role and impace those had on earlier practices.
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#66If anything, the modern notion of "work" as an employee-employer relationship with the primary goal of securing and sustaining a livelihood on the part of the employee, is barely 250 years old. And it's steeped in ideas and social dynamics which first emerged in the late 18th century which would spark the Industrial Revolution.
The Industrial Revolution, above all, was a fundamental reorganization of society where economies shifted from localized labor found in tight-knit agrarian communities, towards concentrating labor in centralized industrial centers. This evolution was just as much driven by advances in technology as it was by shifts in modes of mobility, housing, urbanization, finance & banking, supply chains and so on. It also sparked massive migration of people moving from local communities towards these industrial centers. It's also important to note that this first happened in North America and Western Europe during the 19th and 20th century.
This was by far an evolution which happened on equal footing. The centralization of work in factories, workshops, offices,... was mainly driven by capital, and therefore happened at the behest of industrial elites who, during these times, also secured power as financial and political elites.
The notion that in order to secure a livelihood, one has to work in a centralized workplace, could easily be justified since the marketplace - labor, goods, services,... - was by and large based on manual labor, whether it was working textile, coal and iron mining, or other primary industries.
Throughout the 20th century, that changed as work in erstwhile industrialized countries shifted through secondary towards tertiary industries where labor has become predominantly office based. So long as efficient communication between workers was impeded by the lack of technology, the obligation of "coming to the office" could be easily justified.
In that regard, working in a centralized workplace has evolved into a widely accepted and deeply ingrained cultural norm, even though the digital revolution of the late 20th and early 21st century has deprecated any and all economic arguments to physically centralize labor in tertiary industries.
And so, the article, to me at least, seems more or less reaffirming a cultural norm which emerged during the 19th and early 20th century which was established and pushed by industrial elites back in the day, and is still upheld by their present day successors: the centralized workplace is an absolute necessity for organization of society.
The Marxist thinker Anthonio Gramsci coined the term "cultural hegemony" to describe such normative thinking:
> In Marxist philosophy, cultural hegemony is the domination of a culturally diverse society by the ruling class which manipulates the culture of that society—the beliefs and explanations, perceptions, values, and mores—so that the imposed, ruling-class worldview becomes the accepted cultural norm; the universally valid dominant ideology, which justifies the social, political, and economic status quo as natural and inevitable, perpetual and beneficial for every social class, rather than as artificial social constructs that benefit only the ruling class. This Marxist analysis of how the ruling capitalist class (the bourgeoisie) establishes and maintains its control was originally developed by the Italian philosopher and politician Antonio Gramsci (1891–1937).
(Personally, I have equal reservations in outright applying this term to this discussion, since Marxist thinking is equally shaped by the same changing affordances provided by society over the past 200 years. But I feel it's important to mention it here as this has been recognized and labeled by others as well.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony
Barring precarious living conditions of pre-industrial life compared to the modern comforts enjoyed by the last 3 generations in the industrialized world, it's important to note that Humanity by and large lived - and in many parts of the world still lives - in tight-knit communities throughout the vast majority of (pre)history. Strong importance has always been given to familial, tribal or clan like relationships as those defined one's identity throughout life.
In contrast, the Industrial Revolution and the drive to centralize the workforce has driven urbanization from which present day metropoles have emerged. But at the same time, it has also profoundly disrupted how humans interact with each other. Looking at Western European and American culture in the most broadest sense over the past 200 years, you can see a clear shift and how it became permeated by themes of alienation, loss, saudade, discomfort, deep struggle with identity,... as an answer to these profound, disruptive social changes.
And so, the social and economic disruptions of the 19th and 20th century have left a deep legacy. And the specter of that legacy looms large over our present day lives in profound ways we likely haven't yet come to fully comprehend.
Tangentially, I was left thinking about a concrete example: the HR industry and the approach of hiring individuals. The process, at the end of the day, is about figuring out one main question: is the candidate a "good fit" for the organization? What it really implies is this: "Can we put this random person in a group of 5 picked individuals who, in truth, have little in common and let them act together in a manner that creates a benefit for the employer for 8-10 hours a day in a physically limited space?" From my outline, it should be pretty clear that the HR industry is a cottage industry which tries to solve a problem which was artificially created by centralizing labor.
As far as most employees are concerned, their co-workers aren't part of the original social tribe in which they first formed deep social connections: family, friends, clan, peers,... The main thing employees have in common, which drives them to work together, at the end of the day is a labor contract which they signed in order to secure their livelihood.
For sure, I have to add nuance to those statements. Humans are flexible in forming social ties and cooperating in a central physical location isn't in and of itself problematic. In fact, there are as many different, complex contexts as their are humans out there, each living their own life. And plenty of people derive fulfillment, identity and satisfaction from banding and cooperating together. Many people forge profound friendships and relationships in the workplace as well. My expose above doesn't invalidate the psychology at an individual level.
However, it would be rather disingenuous on the part of employers to expect that any and all individuals, without discerning their backgrounds, would willingly, and unquestioning, from the outset attach deep importance to social ties forged in a centralized workplace. Even the veil of anthropology doesn't take away the reductionism behind that view.
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#67I wrote a booklet[0] about being thrown into remote work, and as I gathered, really the only objections are the likes of this article, something along the lines of "We had this good thing in the office and now we don't have it therefore we need the office". They all fail to use the important lesson Henry Hazlitt thought us: > The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effec…
That’s more of a monograph than a booklet.
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#68What the article is saying is that there are group benefits to working together and that they speculate that the traders in America did better than the traders in Europe because they worked together. Most comments I read on Hacker News that say that working from home is better measure a single individual’s output or that of a group that has worked together for a period of time. There may well be studies that show tha…
Well, of course people are going to advocate for what works best for them. The workforce has drastically changed and careers are much more in the hands of individuals now. Upper management/HR layers aren't advocating for employees anymore, career paths through a single company is almost a relic. So it's only natural that individuals are wanting whats best for individuals.
Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#69Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work
#70I'm real tired of this larger thought that a job is anything but a place where I'm paid to do a task. I'm not there for friends - i already have ample, chosen through decades of careful selection - nor am I there for rituals or world views. I already have those.
Sometimes I feel like lonely/empty people find these things in their job and force it onto the rest of us while singing praises of team building or corp culture/community into their inner void.