Why Russians do not smile (2002) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#61

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #55

With masks being socially acceptable in most if not all the world now, I wonder if the lack of visible smile that causes will change the perception of a smile in places where people usually smile by default.

I wouldn't assume that masks will remain socially acceptable. I’m traveling at the moment in a touristic region of my country, and in spite of masks still being legally required in shops and (before your food is served) restaurants, almost no one is actually wearing them any more. I did wear a mask as I walked into a hotel reception tonight, but the proprietor outright said I was silly to do so, and she pointed to everyone else around. It was very clear that I had committed a faux pas.

My expectation is that by years end, in Europe and North America at least, mask-wearers will be gently mocked everywhere outside of some large metropolitan areas (which have their own epidemiological concerns), and there won’t be any kind of long-term impact on facial expressions.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#62

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#63

Post by jiofih » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

inanutshellus wrote: post #37

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #12

But really, why do Americans smile?

One of the other commenters said: [snip]The English used to feel pretty uncomfortable about yanks grinning away at everything[/snip] That surprised me, since our cultural norms largely stemmed from there. So what would account for the difference? It must've come about after we split as a country. I wonder if it's our Declaration of Independence including "the pursuit of Happiness". See: We hold these truths to be sel…

May be inherited from the cultures that intermingled in the Americas? Africans tend to smile a lot.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#64

Post by phpnode » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

Common telesales advice is to smile before you pick up the phone, because people can hear your smile and are generally more receptive to whatever you're going to say if you sound friendly. I wonder if this trick works in Russia?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#65

Post by firebaze » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

MarkLowenstein wrote: post #40

dougmwne wrote: post #13

I wonder if any Russians can weigh in if this still feels accurate. I'm familiar with Polish Culture, which is less fun, frivolous, and happy than American culture, but a smile is certainly not an attack, just reserved for genuine occasions. Service people are in no way expected to smile unless there is some honest reason to.

Not Russian but my wife is - grew up there until college age. She was saying this exact thing a couple weeks ago (which is why I took interest in this article): that smiling at a stranger will cause them to dismiss you as stupid. So I'd say Yes.

This story is interesting, but maybe the message is different to what we'd like to perceive?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#66

Post by dandanua » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

> For Russians happiness and prosperity are not associated with the smile

This is a very questionable claim. I think such association is true for humans in general and even for some mammals.

Their culture just discourages happiness. Look at the Russian literature - that's an ocean of suffering.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#67

Post by null_object » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

lopatin wrote: post #50

null_object wrote: post #49

I genuinely love the narrative style of this article: every situation is described matter-of-factly, without artifice - unsmiling, in fact. It’s a perfect vehicle for its message.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much did you want to make that pun?

Ah ok. I guess my comment came across as smart-ass and contrived. But I actually thought of the prose like this.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#68

Post by jagrsw » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #13

I wonder if any Russians can weigh in if this still feels accurate. I'm familiar with Polish Culture, which is less fun, frivolous, and happy than American culture, but a smile is certainly not an attack, just reserved for genuine occasions. Service people are in no way expected to smile unless there is some honest reason to.

This is a risky hypothesis, but could it have something to do with access to guns?

In a society when every stranger can potentially be armed, it might be prudent to somehow display the 'I intend no harm' sign upfront, and smile might be a good proxy for that? The 'the armed society is a polite society' thing?

Living in Europe, where owning guns is not common (and carrying personally very very rare), I don't feel compelled to display or require upfront any bigger signs of 'friendliness' to/from strangers, other than 'Hello/Guten Abend/Adieu'. If the situation becomes unpleasant, I can always leave w/o physical consequences (excl. assault situations).

In a gun-loving culture, I'd probably put more effort to lower risk of misunderstandings.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#69

Post by a9h74j » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

rjsw wrote: post #36

nostromo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smiling prominently for portraits seemed to become more popular only after modern dentistry became common. I imagine most people in the Middle Ages (and much later) had chipped, missing, buckled, crooked and stained teeth. Now pristine teeth are a signal of wealth (even though they're usually 100% fake veneers, at least among actors and models) so people want to signal their wealth by smiling prominently.

Teeth in skeletons from the Middle Ages seem fine. It is later ones, after bringing sugar back from the Americas, that have lots of cavities and missing teeth.

Check out the thesis of the recent bestseller Breath by James Nestor. Native American and other traditional cultures put serious emphasis on nose breathing, strictly avoiding mouth breathing. Apparently, consistent nose-breathing can affect nasal and upper-palate development, favoring a spacious mouth and straighter teeth. It can also help avoid dry mouth at night, apparently favoring resistance to dental caries. There is a book by a 19th century ethnographer who discovered some of this, titled Shut Your Mouth and Save Your Life.[1]

[1] https://www.consciousbreathing.com/articles/shut-your-mouth-...

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#70

Post by ferdowsi » Fri, May 28, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

zeroc8 wrote: post #60

Austrian here, we are somewhat in between Russians and Americans, when it comes to smiling. But what I can tell you is that life is just so much better when people smile at you, even if it might not be a hundred percent genuine. My comparison stems from having worked with both Russians and Americans. Being around grumpy Russians all day long makes live really miserable.

Cannot agree enough. I joined a startup that very clearly initially hired for Russian cultural fit (friends hiring friends) and the mood was like attending a funeral on a daily basis. During interviewing, the hiring manager very cleverly had the minority of native-born Americans speak to me so I never got a feel for the actual culture.

I couldn't imagine working long for a place where every day seemed like solitary misery, especially remote during a pandemic, where rapport and ease of communication matters a lot. Didn't help that the quality of engineering work was absolutely abysmal (see friends hiring friends). Was contacting recruiters within a week.