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The media's lab leak fiasco

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Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#61
post #5

Reminder that Facebook and Twitter banned users for talking about the lab-leak theory. Youtube accounts also got demontized/banned.

Have you got a link to examples? I’m wondering if they weren’t also saying that China deliberately leaked the virus. Saying “it is possible but very unlikely that the virus leaked from a Wuhan lab” is talking about the lab-leak theory. Saying “the virus was cooked up and leaked from a Wuhan lab to hurt Trump’s re-election chances” is also talking about the lab-leak theory.

A Infamous case was Twitter baning Zerohedge because of it.

And all that Zerohedge did was point out a lot of public documents, nothing private, and no bioweapon theory. (Twitter claimed Zerohedge had doxxed the scientist, but Zerohedge only had shown the official lab website and documents from it).

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/twitter-bans-zero-hedge-coronav...

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#62
By March, it didn't matter whether the virus had come from a lab or a spillover event, because a bigger, more pressing issue had emerged: what to do now that the virus was outside China. Now that that threat is starting to abate, it seems discussion has picked up where it left off.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#63
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm generally in favour of the actions taken against misinformation but this situation surprises me. Lab leak always seemed plausible and non-crazy even if you think the odds are against it. I don't envy the task of making a call on any of this stuff.

>I'm generally in favour of the actions taken against misinformation... Who would be the one to determine what is misinformation and what is not?

The evidence?

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#64
post #25

> ... Evidence in favor of leak theory lowers the status of the media and raises the status of Tom Cotton but doesn’t drastically alter the policy landscape. That's a very peculiar statement coming from someone who just admitted to missing the 21st century's biggest story to date. And I suspect he's now being too quick to discount the effect on not only the political landscape, but the journalistic landscape as well.

It's incredible. If the lab leak theory is true, then a virus escaped from a lab in China and caused the deaths of millions of people. And at the time this happened, the Chinese government did everything it could to hide that from the world. And for some reason, a large part of the US media and tech establishments went along with the ruse and were nice enough to censor or attempt to discredit/destroy anyone who suggested that the virus didn't come from a wet market, but instead possibly came from the Institute of Virology down the street.

And if we somehow find that all of the above is true, there are people who say that this isn't really a big deal from a policy perspective? What in the actual fuck??

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#65
post #11

To me what gives me credence to the "lab leak theory" more than anything, was China's behavior during and initially after the outbreak. Where they thwarted any investigations from WHO or anyone else and arrested journalists even attempting to cover it. Now we have additional information of lab workers being sick back in November...I genuinely wonder why people immediately jumped in to defend China's actions through t…

The problem with this thinking is assuming the government of China actually knows the truth and is acting to protect itself from a dangerous reveal. They might not have known then (or now!) and are simply acting based on some probability it could be true, default secrecy, and organizational fear.

Yeah, I'm not throwing out the lab leak hypothesis, but the "China is being secret" thing doesn't hold water. They've got some degree of decentralization mixed with always-be-secret where each gov piece doesn't want to accidentally release something from a different gov piece.

The notorious case of the Chinese spy needing spy auth docs to prove that she's a bona fide spy to the Chinese consulate in the US is an example. Surely they could have authed her using her passport, but no, she needed the auth docs and she got caught for having them.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#66
post #5

Reminder that Facebook and Twitter banned users for talking about the lab-leak theory. Youtube accounts also got demontized/banned.

Exactly what many were warning about with big tech censorship and getting vilified for it. But it's good if it fails quickly and conclusively, instead of taking years to get to that point.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#67

Call me cynical...but... What would any government do about it if it was proven to be a lab leak? They could declare it an accident (probably this would be true) and that would be the end of the story. No country would dare to impose sanctions or engage beyond diplomacy. I do not think that the Chinese governments reaction or handling of the case is suspect, they likely want to shut down potential fake news. To label…

There is no way anything can be "proven" in the first place. Does anything think China will will let international investigators waltz into the Wuhan lab and collect samples or something? There will be a ton of meaningless online speculation and people will get bored and move on.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#68
post #9

To me what gives me credence to the "lab leak theory" more than anything, was China's behavior during and initially after the outbreak. Where they thwarted any investigations from WHO or anyone else and arrested journalists even attempting to cover it. Now we have additional information of lab workers being sick back in November...I genuinely wonder why people immediately jumped in to defend China's actions through t…

I think it was because the Trump admin had a history of China bashing and many of us just thought this was more of the same.

From my perspective, this is sadly, the likely explanation. The media and opposition party was so worked up, that anything at all that came from Trump or his admin, was simply wrong, a lie, etc.

That, in part, was why no one took this thing seriously at the beginning in the US.

In retrospect, the constant hounding and attacks on Trump damaged all US citizens, simply by blunting messages, by causing unnecessary conflict. While Trump is out of office, the leaders who caused this confusion are still in office. And that is wrong. They need to be fired.

Indeed, a reasonably large contingent of those hesitant to get a vaccine, are parroting the (then) opposition politicians, who cast doubt on the processes. How much damage, how many lives have been lost, because these fools wanted to win a political contest, and score political points?

The media bear significant responsibility in this as well. Their consistent efforts at painting the former administration as "full of crap" all the time, as lying all the time, blunted and confused many messages, and forced secretaries of departments to have to try to handle/answer often idiotic questions.

So here we are today. Lab leak, far from being a paranoid fantasy, is a real possibility. And yet, the media is still playing these games.

We in the US, need, need ... to fire all the pols responsible for this. To no longer consume the media products of the organizations that encouraged this. And to stop believing that just because someone on one side says something that the other side has free rights to attack that without regards for facts.

I'm quite disgusted with the interplay between politics, media, and the pandemic.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#69
post #30
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest sign for me is how the Chinese government threatened to charge medical workers with espionage if they speak about what happened during the early stages of the outbreak. https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/11/9833532bb925-chin... Consider the following: How can a medical worker speaking about their own experience working at a hospital in any way constitute espionage? If found guilty of espionage, by la…

The problem is that this is Standard Operating Procedure(tm) for China for anything which might upset the hoi-polloi. Trying to predict what China will execute people for is like reading entrails.

> The problem is that this is Standard Operating Procedure(tm) for China

When you say "China", do you mean the Department of Health, or the Department of Defense, or the Department of Trade, or the Chinese government, or the Chinese people, or some Chinese guy?

It makes as much sense to attribute a Standard Operating Procedure to "China" as it does to attribute something like that to "America", or to say "Americans think...", which is not very much at all, because America, like all societies of more than one person, is a pluralist society.

China is 1.3 billion people. If you treat it as a collection of different interests and points of view, your analyses and predictions will have more cogency.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#70

To me what gives me credence to the "lab leak theory" more than anything, was China's behavior during and initially after the outbreak. Where they thwarted any investigations from WHO or anyone else and arrested journalists even attempting to cover it. Now we have additional information of lab workers being sick back in November...I genuinely wonder why people immediately jumped in to defend China's actions through t…

> I feel like it was in part because of money interests and also because it was something Trump touted as true.

I agree on both counts. With respect to the latter, I yearn for a time when we can dissect the media's coverage of Trump somewhat dispassionately without being branded a Trump Supporter (as though there is some kind of firm dichotomy in which we must be one of Team Trump or Team Media).

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