Live data from Hacker News

Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

stefanzukin.com

61–70 of 107 posts

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#61
We've done recent work on using a transformer to generate fake cyber threat intelligence (CTI) and found that a set of cybersecurity experts could not reliably distinguish the fake CTI examples from real ones.

Priyanka Ranade, Aritran Piplai, Sudip Mittal, Anupam Joshi, and Tim Finin, Generating Fake Cyber Threat Intelligence Using Transformer-Based Models, Int. Joint Conf. on Neural Networks, IEEE, 2021. https://ebiq.org/p/969

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#62
post #23

Even hard mode isn't that hard because GPT-2 tends to ramble on while saying nothing substantive. If I can't figure out what a paper is supposed to be talking about, it's fake. 4/4 on hard. Never read a Nature paper before.

Did way better on Hard mode than Easy. I think people get bored of doing this before we can see real indicative results.

Scores under 5 on what amounts to a coin flip doesn't strike me as so remarkable, especially when coupled with an incentivised reporting-bias as we see here. ("I got a high score! Proud to share!" Vs. "I got a low score, or an even score and look at all the people reporting high scores, think I might keep it to myself")

Being as it is, at this juncture, I think the AI may still have a chance to be strong with this one.

Also, were the AI to do well consistently, I'd think it might say more about the external unfamiliarity with, and the internal prevalence of, field-specific scientific jargon, than any AI's or human's innate intelligence.

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#63

Cool demo. With these GPT models, I don't get the appeal of creating fake text that at best can pass as real to someone who doesn't understand the topic and context. What's the use case? Generating more believable spam for social media? Anything else? Because there's no real knowledge representation or information extraction going on here.

For fun .

Fun? Show me the fun!

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#64
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you just train a machine to do it and then generate a bunch and have this second machine sort out any it thinks are machine generated.

The best fake-detecting model detecting fakes generated by the best generator model will always lag behind the latter model.

I think I see what you’re saying, but why is this so?

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#65

The side-by-side display makes it pretty easy to distinguish the one from the other, simply compare them at a level where the one that makes the least sense is the one that is nonsense. Like that I score 10/11. But when looking at just the left side one suddenly the problem is much harder, and I'm happy to get better than even. Bits that don't help: not an English native writer. Seen too many real life papers with cr…

Having read your comment first (ooh, horribile dictu on HN) I decided to try playing by only looking at the left paper and deciding if it was fake. Luckily the model seems to have picked up that "last names can be units" too strongly and the 2nd fake paper was discussing a frequency of "10 Jones".

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#66
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the whole thing ominous because there is no "there" there: there is no understanding in the GPT-2 system, but it's able to generate increasingly plausible text. This greatly increases the amount of plausible nonsense that can be used to drown out actual research. You could certainly replace a lot of pop-sci and start several political movements with GPT-2... all of which has no actual nutritional content.

I find it intriguing for exactly that reason. I agree there's no fundamental "there", but I suggest that you may find that ominous because it implies there's no fundamental understanding anywhere. Only stories that survive scrutiny. GPT can write "about" something from a prompt. This is not much different than me interpreting data that I'm analyzing. I'm constantly generating stories and checking them, until one stor…

You could probably ask an undergraduate or pop science fan to write a paper title and first sentence of an abstract that would turn heads and get good results.

Faking an entire 10 page paper with figures and citations is much harder. I'm sure it'll happen next week, but until then I can still say that's where real understanding is demonstrated.

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#67
post #10

The sad thing is that often there's an equal mental effort to read GPT articles and the real ones. It's as if people are trying to make their papers as incomprehensible as possible.

Incomprehensible language = look how smart I am now give me grant money

Nah--If you're publishing in Nature, you're already well beyond that game.

The incomprehensibility comes from the fact that abstracts (and particularly NPG abstracts) are trying to do many things at once--and all in 200 words. In theory, the abstract should describe why your work is of broad general interest (so Nature's editors will publish it), while explaining the specific scientific question and answer(!) to a specialist audience of often-picky, sometimes-hostile peer reviewers, and conforming to a fairly specific style that doesn't reference the rest of the paper.

It's tough to do well, and even moreso for non-native English speakers.

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#68
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best fake-detecting model detecting fakes generated by the best generator model will always lag behind the latter model.

I think I see what you’re saying, but why is this so?

In essence detecting which one is fake is a common way how you train the generator, tweaking the generating process to "fix" any detectable flaw; and you train it until (as far as your system is concerned) the generated texts are indistinguishable from the real ones. A better system might distinguish them, but that better system can be relatively trivially adapted to generate better texts which it won't be able to distinguish from real ones.

Re: Enigma: GPT-2 trained on 10K Nature Papers: Can you spot the difference?

#69

Cool demo. With these GPT models, I don't get the appeal of creating fake text that at best can pass as real to someone who doesn't understand the topic and context. What's the use case? Generating more believable spam for social media? Anything else? Because there's no real knowledge representation or information extraction going on here.

I use GPT-2/3 in creative writing to generate rough text that I then go back and edit/improve because it gives a good starting point (and often has a lot of high-quality factors).

I don't know if this translates to technical writing, but it's possible someone might complete a prompt on some specific topic(s) and then use that as a point to start from, especially if they're knowledgeable enough on the topic to correct the output. It's nice to be able to skip a lot of boilerplate words (how many words in this comment are actually the meat of this idea, and how many words are just there to tie all those morsels together?)

Post reply on HN