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FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

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Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#61

Post by RandallBrown »

jakeva wrote: post #51
nanidin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a public health issue on the same order of magnitude as COVID-19, but happening every year: “Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.” [0] [0] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...

But it's not. Smoking isn't contagious.

It sort of is actually.

If someone near you is smoking, so are you.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#62

Post by __blockcipher__ »

LargeWu wrote: post #27
ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

I think a more accurate way of framing it is "Menthols have been targeted specifically to black people, and also, they're even more harmful than regular cigarettes". It's definitely not "let's take this away because black people like it".

How are menthol cigarettes more harmful than regular ones? The menthol just makes it easier to smoke more. Is that the crux of your argument?

I find the “company X is targeting [arbitrary subcategory]” argument to be totally asinine btw. Is Krispy Kreme targeting fat people by offering free donuts for people that get COVID-19 vaccines?

Lastly there is nothing more patronizing than telling a black person that you’re preventing them from buying menthol cigarettes for their own good.

Man I hate the whole “safety culture” crowd. I find it such an insufferable ideology. But then again I’m explicitly not a collectivist so that’s par for the course.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#64

Post by techrat »

kube-system wrote: post #26
awillen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our tax dollars pay for Medicare/Medicaid, so for those people who don't have private insurance, they're saddling society with the costs of their choices. In general I lean libertarian and agree that banning things isn't great, but if you want to make your own choices, you have to bear the costs of those choices. If you want to waive your right to government funded healthcare, then you ought to be able to mak…

Just tax cigarettes to the equivalent or greater than the amount of dollars of burden they place on the healthcare system. Make smokers pay for their own choices. Externalized costs are the root of many seemingly insurmountable societal problems, and most can be fixed by simply accounting for the costs appropriately.

You're getting dangerously close to the whole "social credit" style of cost burden. Slippery slope, bud.

Now what? Your healthcare costs should go up because you like your eggs fried and with salt instead of hard boiled?

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#65

Post by judge2020 »

jakeva wrote: post #51
nanidin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a public health issue on the same order of magnitude as COVID-19, but happening every year: “Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.” [0] [0] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...

But it's not. Smoking isn't contagious.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco...

> Since the 1964 Surgeon General’s Report, 2.5 million adults who were nonsmokers died because they breathed secondhand smoke.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#66

Post by [deleted] »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #58
whatshisface wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just dramatically increase the taxes so people can still choose to pay a high price if they want to? If you increased the taxes enough to change behavior, that would imply that people who wanted to smoke were made unable to. If all the people who want Menthols after your tax increase can still afford them, then it would not stop them, by definition. Consequently, vice taxes are always either ineffectual, or…

Yeah I mean if you increase prices 1000x it would have that effect but if you increase them closer to what a place like NZ or Aus does (I think like ~75%, it's been a while since I studied this stuff then the cost is offputting for many but it means that the societal costs aren't externalized onto nonsmokers in the form of additional healthcare burden and the like. There's lots of arguments about pigouvian taxes and…

[deleted]

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#67

Post by chmod600 »

LargeWu wrote: post #27
ketzo wrote: post #4

I’m extremely in favor of harm-reduction legislation in general, and I think this ban is a good idea overall. Flavors are effective at hooking young people in particular — lots of vaping research has shown that — and so get it outta here. Great. But man, “ban menthols because Black people like them” sure feels a little weird. Like, I get that’s not exactly what’s going on. But.. it’s a little bit what’s going on? I g…

I think a more accurate way of framing it is "Menthols have been targeted specifically to black people, and also, they're even more harmful than regular cigarettes". It's definitely not "let's take this away because black people like it".

When paternalistic policies are directed at particular demographics, it is kinda disturbing. I mean, sure, there's a reason. But there always is, and it makes me wonder if a line is being crossed here that will set a bad precedent.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#68

Post by aidenn0 »

vvanpo wrote: post #7

On the one hand, I understand that complete prohibition for drugs and alcohol just don't work. But I have a difficult time squaring that against my feelings towards tobacco, where I feel it would be so much easier for me to quit if I wasn't tempted by its availability at every corner store.

Do you think making it harder to get would help?

Maybe requiring a license to sell tobacco, and limiting the number of licenses in a municipality based on population?

Or putting the stores in industrial zoned areas rather than commercial/residential?

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#69

Post by void_mint »

jakeva wrote: post #51
nanidin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a public health issue on the same order of magnitude as COVID-19, but happening every year: “Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.” [0] [0] https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast...

But it's not. Smoking isn't contagious.

That's true, but covid doesn't get you chemically addicted, nor does it have a bunch of companies attempting to coerce you into continuing to have it.

Re: FDA Moves to Ban All Menthol Cigarettes and Flavored Cigars

#70

Post by willio58 »

dubcanada wrote: post #28
veilrap wrote: post #8

This just feels like a continuation of the failed war on drugs... I don't smoke, but I have no problem with allowing people to do so in private spaces. Why do we insist on micromanaging peoples lives?

If you are going to provide any kind free or discounted health care, the best way to make that cheaper is to restrict people from doing damaging things. So ya healthcare.

Agreed. It's a balance though, you don't want to create a black market for the things you make illegal. For some reason I don't see menthol cigarettes becoming a black market but I can't say the same for flavored vape cartridges.
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