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Changes at Basecamp

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Re: Changes at Basecamp

#61

Post by dnissley »

lhnz wrote: post #54
agd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll assume this question was asked sincerely and in good faith. By cancelling in this context I mean trying to ostrasize those they disagree with. Talking negatively about them, excluding them as much as possible from social and professional activities. Ignoring their advice and opinion at work. Being rude or negative when they do have to engage with them etc. In short, acting without the respect and courtesy we wou…

That's soft cancellation. Hard cancellation is when you get others to gang up on them and go to HR to try to get them fired. Afterwards, you publicise whatever got them fired offline in the hopes that they become 'radioactive' to employers and so that they and their family fall on hard times. I'm a little confused as to why people don't understand what "cancel" means in this context. Isn't it quite a popular topic no…

I think people get confused because many on the right use cancellation to refer to both firing people who have done something that's truly vile, as well as those who have been fired for simply having an unorthodox opinion. E.g. Harvey Weinstein vs. James Damore.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#62

Post by [deleted] »

quotemstr wrote: post #53
paxys wrote: post #27

Can there ever be a non-work related conversation between employees that is not a "societal and political discussion"? In the past week I have spoken to coworkers about high housing costs (bunch of us are testing the market right now), property taxes, EV rebates, weed legalization, homeless/drug use problem on the streets. All of this is apparently a fireable offense at Basecamp? People are going to say "obviously st…

> Can there ever be a non-work related conversation between employees that is not a "societal and political discussion"? If you're tendentious enough, you can make anything political. But if you start talking about the post-colonial geopolitical implications of your coworker's son's new chocolate chip cookie recipe, expect everyone to roll their eyes and walk away.

[deleted]

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#64

Post by ljm »

quotemstr wrote: post #53
paxys wrote: post #27

Can there ever be a non-work related conversation between employees that is not a "societal and political discussion"? In the past week I have spoken to coworkers about high housing costs (bunch of us are testing the market right now), property taxes, EV rebates, weed legalization, homeless/drug use problem on the streets. All of this is apparently a fireable offense at Basecamp? People are going to say "obviously st…

> Can there ever be a non-work related conversation between employees that is not a "societal and political discussion"? If you're tendentious enough, you can make anything political. But if you start talking about the post-colonial geopolitical implications of your coworker's son's new chocolate chip cookie recipe, expect everyone to roll their eyes and walk away.

Add small talk, banter, and shooting the shit into that. And, maybe, becoming friends or at least more acquainted.

There's a whole breadth of interpersonal communication and humanity that exists outside of the realm of politics, society, and activism. It's self evident, otherwise what do you expect to achieve from talking politics and activism except to be able to talk even more about politics and activism?

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#66

Post by klelatti »

"Employees are free to...speak out on whatever horrible injustices are being perpetrated on this group or that . But that's their business, not ours."

So BaseCamp as a company has no view on any horrible injustices as long as they don't hit their bottom line.

Really surprised that a firm that is supposed to be great at marketing seems to have taken no account of how a sizeable subset of their customers would react to this.

They also seem to have really upset some key members of their team.

Strange and on the face of it not an especially smart move.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#67

Post by lovegoblin »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #38
shados wrote: post #34

This is a tricky one. On one hand, there's the obvious issues: almost everything you can talk about is societal or political. Talking about your lawn growing is societal because it means you can have a lawn and that gets into the housing crisis sooner or later. If people can't speak about politics, marginalized group will have difficulty bringing up tough issues that impact them in their day to day job. On the other…

Grass lawns are also just flat-out bad. https://www.nrdc.org/stories/more-sustainable-and-beautiful-...

Which is a perfect example of how nothing is truly apolitical.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#68

Post by williamsmj »

mikl wrote: post #44
paxys wrote: post #27

Can there ever be a non-work related conversation between employees that is not a "societal and political discussion"? In the past week I have spoken to coworkers about high housing costs (bunch of us are testing the market right now), property taxes, EV rebates, weed legalization, homeless/drug use problem on the streets. All of this is apparently a fireable offense at Basecamp? People are going to say "obviously st…

Try reading the OP again. The headline is “No more societal and political discussions on our company Basecamp account .” They’re not saying you can’t chat with your colleagues about politics, they’re just saying it shouldn’t happen in the space everyone has to use for work.

That's a recent edit: https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/1386810666221150210/

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#69

Post by ljm »

shados wrote: post #34

This is a tricky one. On one hand, there's the obvious issues: almost everything you can talk about is societal or political. Talking about your lawn growing is societal because it means you can have a lawn and that gets into the housing crisis sooner or later. If people can't speak about politics, marginalized group will have difficulty bringing up tough issues that impact them in their day to day job. On the other…

One place I worked at had a politics channel, designed to keep the chat out of the general spaces. Mainly because the team worked across the world and politics were US-centric first and UK-centric second, and nobody wanted a ping on one of the global chat channels only to get a link complaining about a sleazy American politician or the debate on Brexit as if none of the rest of the world (and the politics there) existed.

As it happened, we noticed the few people with even vaguely right-wing opinions or ideals were dogpiled by a much larger contingent of left-wing people. It was an ugly sight, and I wasn't happy with that at all. It eventually settled down and the diversity of opinion opened up enough for people to have a sensible chat, but those first few months were utterly fucking shameful. It was about then that I stopped identifying as left wing and decided that there isn't a side to pick unless you've made it who you are.

I still disagreed with most of the conservative viewpoints, but disagreement is fine. A bit of healthy back and forth, get another drink, and then change the topic.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#70

Post by SergeAx »

paxys wrote: post #27

Can there ever be a non-work related conversation between employees that is not a "societal and political discussion"? In the past week I have spoken to coworkers about high housing costs (bunch of us are testing the market right now), property taxes, EV rebates, weed legalization, homeless/drug use problem on the streets. All of this is apparently a fireable offense at Basecamp? People are going to say "obviously st…

In the past week I have spoken to coworkers about custom keyboards, sail racing, gym routines and upside of hiring a personal trainer, travel, 3D-printing, I can go on forever. I believe it is fundamentally possible to have an interesting and relaxing conversation with coworkers and not to touch political topics.
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