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EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

politico.eu

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Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#61

Post by rvieira »

blfr wrote: post #53

The quality of leadership has really declined. Western countries seem to be run exclusively by petty managers. There's almost no "we shall fight them on the beaches" or "not because they are easy but because they are hard" and way more process, lawsuits, committees, etc. As it turns out, you need some charisma and vision to effectively do things.

I honestly don't understand your comment.

"we shall fight them on the beaches" is war-time motivational speech. We live in peace-time (in Europe at least). In a stable, peace-time society, disputes are solved in courts.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#62

Post by throw-8462682 »

rjzzleep wrote: post #36
throw-8462682 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adenovirus vaccines are extremely common. You must be anti vax?

What a seriously fucked up response to personally attack someone that made a statement based on existing research that YOU don't know about, just because YOU decided to divide the world into two people. Those that YOU think agree (which you conveniently labeled vaxers) and those that YOU disagree with. Not only that, but you don't even have the balls to actually use your account to write that incendiary comment. It's…

Respectfully, are you a doctor? I am not. That link is from 2007 and talks about a modified Adenovirus. There’s so much medical jargon in there that I can’t make any sense of it, let alone connect it to increased risk of strokes for an Adenovirus based COVID vaccine. I understand why vaccines can be scary but ask yourself this: is your unease based on a deep medical understanding of the subject matter, or an underbelly feeling?

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#63

Post by fighterpilot »

ben_w wrote: post #49
jolts wrote: post #31

I thought maybe people getting blood clots and dropping like flies in parking lots would be more worrying than not getting enough but ok..

It’s something like a thousand times less dangerous than the virus — 4 or 5 per million for the vaccine, 1 to 10 per thousand for the disease. (And COVID deaths staying that low assumes we continue to prevent the instantaneous case load exceeding the capacity of the health care system, which is hard enough when we can tell people a vaccine is coming and they just need to wait for it).

You really do have to segment by age groups when doing this analysis.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#64

Post by mort96 »

throwaway4good wrote: post #55

The EU is hitting top bureaucratic legalize idiocy. Who cares if AZ breached the contract if it takes years of legal battle to find out? The EU needs to focus on getting more vaccines. I would suggest to start trail/approval processes for the vaccines from Russia and China. In particular China has shown the capacity and a willingness to export. So let's eat our pride and focus on getting the pandemic under control.

So, it's totally possible that the EU isn't doing enough to approve alternative vaccines, I don't know.

But dude, the EU is huge. They're capable of pursuing multiple avenues at once. I don't understand why they shouldn't try to get more doses from AZ _at the same time as_ trying to approve and procure vaccines from other sources. It's not one or the other.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#65

Post by thomasahle »

throw-8462682 wrote: post #13

At this point, AZ must really regret having gone down the road of working with Oxford to supply a Covid vaccine. They are not even making money off it at the moment. Pfizer on the other hand hit gold with their BioNTech collaboration. They are making 10+ B this year and probably even more in brand value. AZ on the other hand lost billions of brand value. Is there a morale of this story?

High risks, high rewards?

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#66

Post by jarmitage »

Dumbdo wrote: post #41
jarmitage wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere in particular. Perhaps my sentiment is more a reflection of media coverage focusing on issues like TFA, rather than on increasing supply which is less scandalous. Thanks for this link. I would much rather that the media kept me up to date on this instead!

From my personal experience (at least the German) media focuses on that as well. I read a lot of articles on how the companies are working to scale the output up. One good and recent example is this article (paywalled) https://www.zeit.de/2021/15/biontech-werk-marburg-corona-imp...

That's good to hear. Maybe I don't read enough UK media widely enough (for health reasons!) to really have a say here, but I don't remember reading similar articles recently. It must be out there though, perhaps in more specialised media.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#67

Post by blfr »

rvieira wrote: post #61
blfr wrote: post #53

The quality of leadership has really declined. Western countries seem to be run exclusively by petty managers. There's almost no "we shall fight them on the beaches" or "not because they are easy but because they are hard" and way more process, lawsuits, committees, etc. As it turns out, you need some charisma and vision to effectively do things.

I honestly don't understand your comment. "we shall fight them on the beaches" is war-time motivational speech. We live in peace-time (in Europe at least). In a stable, peace-time society, disputes are solved in courts.

An acute crisis requires a different mindset. When you shut down half of your economy, introduce curfew, try to keep people in their homes, and plenty of people are also dying, you're not at war but it's not quite peacetime either.

https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2021/04/06/scientists-against...

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#68

Post by jpxw »

Sosh101 wrote: post #60
jpxw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, I don’t think it’s “not recommended” to under 30s. I think under 30s are just given the choice of an alternative vaccine, if they’d like it. In many EU countries, the vaccine was banned for large segments of the population for extended periods of time.

> In many EU countries, the vaccine was banned for large segments of the population for extended periods of time. Also happened in Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, Norway, Iceland, and some African countries.

Yes, and it was just as incorrect/unscientific in those places too, but we’re discussing the EU here.

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#69

Post by [deleted] »

rvieira wrote: post #61
blfr wrote: post #53

The quality of leadership has really declined. Western countries seem to be run exclusively by petty managers. There's almost no "we shall fight them on the beaches" or "not because they are easy but because they are hard" and way more process, lawsuits, committees, etc. As it turns out, you need some charisma and vision to effectively do things.

I honestly don't understand your comment. "we shall fight them on the beaches" is war-time motivational speech. We live in peace-time (in Europe at least). In a stable, peace-time society, disputes are solved in courts.

[deleted]

Re: EU preparing legal case against AstraZeneca over vaccine shortfalls

#70

Post by fighterpilot »

rvieira wrote: post #61
blfr wrote: post #53

The quality of leadership has really declined. Western countries seem to be run exclusively by petty managers. There's almost no "we shall fight them on the beaches" or "not because they are easy but because they are hard" and way more process, lawsuits, committees, etc. As it turns out, you need some charisma and vision to effectively do things.

I honestly don't understand your comment. "we shall fight them on the beaches" is war-time motivational speech. We live in peace-time (in Europe at least). In a stable, peace-time society, disputes are solved in courts.

I got the spirit of the comment. At the beginning of the pandemic, there should've been overwhelming support for therapeutics and vaccines.

Multiple countries should've been preparing manufacturing facilities well in advance, and those that couldn't should've been scrambling to order from every vendor just in case. A "war effort" if you will. Instead we got a very inward and reactionary response (lockdowns etc) but lacked that longer term visionary response which required foresight of only six months.

The following is my speculation, but - it's probably a consequence of having mostly lawyers in charge, and having elected representatives rather far removed from a direct democratic vote as in the case of the EU (although non-EU countries mostly responded in the same way by ignoring therapeutics and vaccines too)

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