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Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

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Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#61

Post by asciimike »

shadowgovt wrote: post #14

I'm not sure what the author (or Yegge, for that matter) expect a good timeframe to be for deprecating services. Anecdotally, Google announced the changeover of Cloud logging API versions in October of 2016, with a 5-month ramp (October to March) to switch from the v1 beta API to the v2 beta API. Five months is nearly two quarters, which is quite a long window for a beta API IMHO. That having been said, Google's habi…

When I was doing deprecations on GCP, it was minimum 12 months for any deprecation. Five seems shockingly fast!

As for the beta thing: GCP's definition of beta was basically everyone else's definition of GA, since the GA requirements were so insane (e.g. 99.999% internal availability) that getting there would take literal years (see the GCF beta to GA taking like 18 months?). I totally agree that it's weird that things would stay in beta for so long, as opposed to hitting industry standard levels so users can have confidence in them, but setting GA as far higher than the industry was part of Google Cloud's plan.

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#62

Post by marcinzm »

foxylad wrote: post #41

Can HN please add a filter for these increasingly lame "Google cancels all the stuff" posts? Yes, Google has cancelled services, but they've all been free things that they had every right to decide would never increase revenue. Why should Google have to keep everything they ever built running for ever? If you pay for services from Google, then it's a completely different story. We've used Appengine for 12 years now,…

>We've used Appengine for 12 years now, and every time they've decided to deprecate services, there's always plenty of notice, a superior replacement, and usually lower costs.

That doesn't remove the cost and time of updating your code and migrating.

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#63

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

latch wrote: post #20

I'm one of those "you'll get my baremetal and systemd out of my dead cold hands", kind of guy. But I have reasonable exposure to both AWS and GC and I can say that, by far, Google Cloud is easier to reason about. As a consequence, it's much harder to misconfigure. The 2 large AWS deploys I've seen have, at best, had billing issues no one really understood (incl AWS), and at worse, security issues. Complaining that ma…

What does a billing issue look like? Is it something trivial, like they charged you for $X+X, but you only used $X (e.g., they double billed you -- should be solvable with a phone call)? Or more complex, e.g, they charged for more egress than you actually used (kind of hard to prove or disprove after the fact)?

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#64

Post by random5634 »

RKearney wrote: post #46

GCP doesn't really support IPv6 at all. Sure you can terminate IPv6 on a load balancer and then proxy the connections over IPv4 back to your instances, but you can't get native IPv6 on an instance. It's that type of shortcoming that leads me to believe Google does not see a future in this product.

I’m on ipv6 at home and aws is finally pretty good on IPv6 for me - security groups / vpc/ instances - is a very nice feeling

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#65

Post by igorhvr »

foxylad wrote: post #41

Can HN please add a filter for these increasingly lame "Google cancels all the stuff" posts? Yes, Google has cancelled services, but they've all been free things that they had every right to decide would never increase revenue. Why should Google have to keep everything they ever built running for ever? If you pay for services from Google, then it's a completely different story. We've used Appengine for 12 years now,…

The thing is they change/deprecate/retire paid-for services too (in a brutal contrast with the competiton).

Two quotes from one of the posts referenced in the submission (from Steve Yegge):

...I know I haven’t gone into a lot of specific details about GCP’s deprecations. I can tell you that virtually everything I’ve used, from networking (legacy to VPC) to storage (Cloud SQL v1 to v2) to Firebase (now Firestore with a totally different API) to App Engine (don’t even get me started) to Cloud Endpoints to… I dunno, everything, has forced me to rewrite it all after at most 2–3 years, and they never automate it for you, and often there is no documented migration path at all. It’s just crickets. And every time, I look over at AWS, and I ask myself what the fuck I’m still doing on GCP. ...

... Update 3, Aug 31 2020: A Google engineer in Cloud Marketplace who happens to be an old friend of mine contacted me to find out why C2D didn’t work, and we eventually figured out that it was because I had committed the sin of creating my network a few years ago, and C2D was failing for legacy networks due to a missing subnet parameter in their templates. I guess my advice to prospective GCP users is to make sure you know a lot of people at Google… ...

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#66

Post by dontblink »

marcinzm wrote: post #62
foxylad wrote: post #41

Can HN please add a filter for these increasingly lame "Google cancels all the stuff" posts? Yes, Google has cancelled services, but they've all been free things that they had every right to decide would never increase revenue. Why should Google have to keep everything they ever built running for ever? If you pay for services from Google, then it's a completely different story. We've used Appengine for 12 years now,…

>We've used Appengine for 12 years now, and every time they've decided to deprecate services, there's always plenty of notice, a superior replacement, and usually lower costs. That doesn't remove the cost and time of updating your code and migrating.

In most? cases it should make up for that in lowered cost savings moving forward.

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#67

Post by throwaway894345 »

slenk wrote: post #52
throwaway894345 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just completed a migration from AWS to GCP. My experience was previously entirely AWS, but GCP has been really nice. GCP has fewer features (e.g., no scheduled filestore backups), but GKE is far and away better than EKS and the overall console UX is far better as well. There’s also generally less to understand and thus misconfigure, and far fewer half-baked features to wade through to find the happy path (I’ve spen…

I feel you on Cloudformation :S I haven't used Kubernetes on either platform - so there may be more to that. One thing I really dislike about GCP is how expensive it is for personal or hobby use. I burned through $300 for a simple vm on GCP in a few weeks because their cheapest instances are so expensive.

Yeah, navigating either platform is tough for hobbyists. I can get more lambda invocations than I’ll ever use for free but a single load balancer is like $30/month, never mind instances.

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#68

Post by bradleyjg »

yaacov wrote: post #60
bradleyjg wrote: post #53

The single biggest concern I have with Google cloud, bigger than Reader or the like, is Project Maven. What if some Google employees decide my company is bad? Will Google cave in and fire us as a customer? That’s an existential risk.

I can definitely see this being an issue if your product bombs funerals, helps regimes cover up human rights abuses, or deports undocumented people. Fossil fuels are a maybe. This really shouldn’t be a problem for 99% of customers though.

This week it’s ICE and Exxon-Mobil. Next week, who knows. It’s not worth the risk when Google has a demonstrated history of catering to its employees demands to drop customers.

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#69

Post by marcinzm »

120bits wrote: post #58
marcinzm wrote: post #2

What left a bad taste in my mouth is any quota increase getting rejected unless you got on a phone call with sales and listened to an upsell speech. I'm trying to give you money and you're putting roadblocks in front of me.

I was really impressed by how simple it is to increase quota on AWS. It was just simple elastic IP quota increase and few things related to VPC quotas. I haven't used Google cloud as much, so I can't comment on it. If you don't mind me asking, what quota increase was rejected?

A relatively small GPU increase so we could do some machine learning project testing. We asked for I think 8 T4s which are like $180/month each if run 24/7.

Re: Why I distrust Google Cloud more than than AWS or Azure

#70

Post by srj »

RKearney wrote: post #46

GCP doesn't really support IPv6 at all. Sure you can terminate IPv6 on a load balancer and then proxy the connections over IPv4 back to your instances, but you can't get native IPv6 on an instance. It's that type of shortcoming that leads me to believe Google does not see a future in this product.

The network virtualization scheme and likely many other parts of the stack need to change in order to support v6. It's not that there aren't investments in this area, it's just a non-trivial effort.

Source: Worked in GCP networking.

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