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Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

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61–70 of 578 posts

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#61
post #5

A simple move that would ban selling fossil power plants for cryptocurrencies mining purpose BUT allowing to do so for the carbon-neutral energy would be a win-win for both sides and will help the transition from carbon-heavy energy.

Simpler: ban banks and credit card companies from dealing with anything related to cryptocurrency

That sounds rather rash.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#62
post #24

Is it possible for people to source or certify sustainable Bitcoin? Since there is a transaction chain, can you choose to buy or boycott “dirty coins”?

There is a crypto called Monero that doesn't have this problem. it is growing fast.

To fix this person's comment, this comment makes sense if by "problem" they meant "defending your coins from boycotters"--Monero is (supposedly) untraceable so presumably it is impossible to boycott specific "dirty" sources of Monero.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#63
post #45
post #24

Is it possible for people to source or certify sustainable Bitcoin? Since there is a transaction chain, can you choose to buy or boycott “dirty coins”?

It's still on the same power grid. The renewable energy would have been used one way or another. It's still contributing to the burning of fossil fuels on the grid.

That's not exactly true because interconnection capacity is very limited. That's why quebec has rock bottom prices for electricity[1] but 250mi away in boston the electricity cost several times more.

[1] https://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/compa...

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's renewable therefore I can waste as much of it as I want."

It's true though. You can throw up a 1kw system for under 1k now.

Maybe at the hobby level that thinking works. At scale, though, it does not unless you're building a renewable power plant where it simply can't connect to the grid.

If you can get on the grid, then the power your plant produces and what you do with it are two separate things. Instead of e.g. mining crypto, you could sell the power generated. By using it instead of selling it, you're just pushing other users to use more fossil fuels.

The calculus IMO is power consumption * grid-wide average CO2 emissions. You can't just count using solar as 0 emissions, because using solar doesn't bring that average to 0. It reduces it slightly.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#65
post #23

This is simply perverse.

It's perverse, just like almost every other form of economic activity on this planet, eg. farming (fertilizer/herbicide run-off), mining (tailing ponds), factories (air/ground/water pollution). The underlying reason is simple: externalities aren't being priced in, which allows the owners of such operations to make money while everyone pays the price.

None of what you listed are similar cases.

Farming produced food to eat. Mining produces minerals to build things with. Factories produce goods.

Bitcoin produces... A series of bits that some people will pay money for? It seems like bitcoin is basically fine art at this point.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#66
post #24

Is it possible for people to source or certify sustainable Bitcoin? Since there is a transaction chain, can you choose to buy or boycott “dirty coins”?

What do you mean? All transactions are verified by miners, so all transactions are equally "dirty".

It’s much much cheaper to verify than it is to mine. That’s kind of the whole point.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the propellers get used quickly and are not recyclable AFAIK.

I would like justification for the downvotes please. Thanks.

OK, so here is my source anyway: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turb...

I'll refrain from commenting on environmental issues in the future, it's just some sort of shit-flinging contest.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#68
Who cares? Everyone is fixated on Bitcoin... there are tons of energy inefficient processes out there. The solution has nothing to do with Bitcoin... environmental impact needs to be priced into energy itself, whatever the application. This is a failure of the markets (and therefore ourselves). Bitcoin is a scapegoat.

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#69

It would be great if the gigantic Bitcoin energy demand leads to renewable energy breakthroughs.

... do we really need another energy demand to drive R&D? We're already working with an energy budget equivalent to 1/3 the decay that powers the Earth's fiery core. Is it really fair to credit any new breakthroughs to the last ~12 GW of demand, instead of the first ~18 TW?

Yes, building more solar panels and and batteries gives the industry more experience at doing so, which (for a time) will allow it to refine the tech through multiple iterations, making future capacity cheaper and better-quality.

EDIT: this is to say, renewable tech production is still following a learning curve (https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth)

Re: Bitcoin miners are buying power plants

#70
post #65
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perverse, just like almost every other form of economic activity on this planet, eg. farming (fertilizer/herbicide run-off), mining (tailing ponds), factories (air/ground/water pollution). The underlying reason is simple: externalities aren't being priced in, which allows the owners of such operations to make money while everyone pays the price.

None of what you listed are similar cases. Farming produced food to eat. Mining produces minerals to build things with. Factories produce goods. Bitcoin produces... A series of bits that some people will pay money for? It seems like bitcoin is basically fine art at this point.

Bitcoin is proof that a thing can be a commodity without having a corporeal manifestation.
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