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Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#61

Post by graeme »

da_chicken wrote: post #33
refurb wrote: post #22

That’s seems like a bit draconian. There is no “safe drug”, “unsafe drug”. It’s a continuum and it’s balanced by the benefit. I find it hard to believe there isn’t a subgroup where the benefit of the vaccine doesn’t outweigh the risk.

There certainly is, but there's also other vaccines which don't exhibit this problem. Why should we administer AstraZenica or J&J when Moderna and Pfizer are available and don't have any correlated blood clot issues?

Because there aren’t enough Moderna and Pfizer, and every day we don’t vaccinate, more people get sick and die, people can’t see their friends and family or live normally, and parts of the economy remain shut down.

The cost is really severe! Especially globally, many countries have hardly been able to vaccinate at all.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#62

Post by mensetmanusman »

makomk wrote: post #34
0-_-0 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The company says the agreed cut-off point for data was 17 February, by which time there had been 141 cases and efficacy was 79%. Within 48 hours, AstraZeneca had added more recent data. On a total of 190 cases, there was 76% efficacy (and as always 100% against severe illness and death). It’s not much of a difference." [0] [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/26/how-the-ast...

That baffled me. They got a huge amount of stick for measuring up to the pre-determined cutoff point, which as I understand it is the correct way to do a scientific study if you want your results to actually be valid...

This.

The reason it is risky to measure data after a predetermined stop point is that it lets human bias play a role in making conclusions.

It is very subtle, but this human behavior has been a contributor to the replication crisis:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#63

Post by cameronh90 »

amelius wrote: post #27

Perhaps they should close their roads too, because people die from traffic accidents ...

Denmark (along with the other Scandinavian countries and the UK) have almost the lowest traffic-related death rate in the world too.

As far as I can tell, Denmark are reporting such a high rate of death from the AZ vaccine relative to the number of doses deployed, that the risk would actually be quite bad compared to driving. However, the absolute numbers are tiny so the uncertainty is enormous. It's quite possible they were just unlucky.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#64

Post by throwaway4good »

sbuk wrote: post #45
mantap wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically Pfizer has higher efficacy, especially with variants. Giving Pfizer to the old and AZ to the young probably saves more lives than the other way around. If you decide that you don't want to give AZ to the young any more, it doesn't follow that it's then a good idea to give it to the old, especially if you have enough supplies of Pfizer to vaccinate the old.

All the vaccines have 100% efficacy in preventing ICU admissions so far.

You should be careful comparing numbers from vaccines as they are collected in different environments; there were fewer variants present when first vaccines were on trail.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#65

Post by hef19898 »

frafra wrote: post #44
hef19898 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is AZ incompetent? On other aspects than PR, that is. Their vaccine is working, it is sufficiently effective by anyones standard. That mRNA vaccines turned out to be better is great, but it was not sure a year ago.

They failed to deliver and respect the contract with the EU. This and what their CEO said about the differences in contracts between UK and EU (timing and best efforts - while the differences did not justify the different treatment). They cared so little about PR that some science communicators (like Burioni in Italy) stopped to defend the AZ vaccine because of the total lack of statements and communications from AZ,…

Well, my interpretation is that AZ did, in fact, not violate the EU contract. The contract states "best effort", not penalties and even redemnifies AZ from delivery delays in case these delays are caused by additional orders from the EU. And guess what the EU did, IMHO mainly to media and public pressure, earlier this year.

Given the bad press AZ got, reverting to a "no comment" strategy is not such a bad idea. Anything they say will be used against them anyway.

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#66

Post by mulvya »

s_dev wrote: post #56
0-_-0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part is that AstraZeneca chose to sell the vaccine at cost, making no profit. This amount of negative publicity with no good reason will make them (and others) think twice about such a gesture.

^ This is misinformation. AZ is a profit driven pharma manufacturing company. Oxford University developed the vaccine. When Oxford licenced the vaccine to AZ -- it was at the institence of Bill Gates a major donor to Oxford and shareholder of AZ. The licence allows AZ to make a profit -- after the pandemic. Before a certain 'letter to Oxford' from Gates, Oxford was planning on giving away the vaccine to anyone who wa…

> The licence allows AZ to make a profit -- after the pandemic.

After could be as early as 1st July 2021.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-astrazene...

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#67

Post by 0-_-0 »

s_dev wrote: post #56
0-_-0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sad part is that AstraZeneca chose to sell the vaccine at cost, making no profit. This amount of negative publicity with no good reason will make them (and others) think twice about such a gesture.

^ This is misinformation. AZ is a profit driven pharma manufacturing company. Oxford University developed the vaccine. When Oxford licenced the vaccine to AZ -- it was at the institence of Bill Gates a major donor to Oxford and shareholder of AZ. The licence allows AZ to make a profit -- after the pandemic. Before a certain 'letter to Oxford' from Gates, Oxford was planning on giving away the vaccine to anyone who wa…

The quotes in this article contradict what you're saying:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/26/how-the-ast...

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#68

Post by jsnell »

There's a very special kind of arrogance going on in all the comment threads about the Covid vaccine suspensions.

These decisions are being made by professionals. They have been trained to do exactly this kind of decision. They have access to the best possible data on both the risks of the vaccine, the risks of Covid in their local context, and the impact these decisions have on the national vaccination schedules.

But everyone in the comments is just absolutely sure that the experts are totally incompetent, and a HN reader with access to Wikipedia is better equipped to know what the right decision is. Why?

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#69

Post by Tenoke »

londons_explore wrote: post #53

This decision seems illogical to many commenters here, but I assume the decision was made by professionals with all the data in front of them. Which then raises the question, why did these professionals make a decision so different than the "obvious" opinion here?

Professionals make wrong decisions all the time, often because the wrong professionals are the ones making them.

Are people already forgetting how masks were actively disrecommended by 'professionals' at the start of the pandemic while plenty here and in other places were similarly saying that masks are obviously good?

Re: Denmark to permanently cease using AstraZeneca vaccine

#70

Post by hntroll666 »

londons_explore wrote: post #53

This decision seems illogical to many commenters here, but I assume the decision was made by professionals with all the data in front of them. Which then raises the question, why did these professionals make a decision so different than the "obvious" opinion here?

I appreciate this gentle style of cult deprogramming.
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